President Joe Biden
Right now, we need VP Biden, we need him to step down and drop out so Bernie sanders can save this country from this global crisis just like FDR.
A thread to debate the efficacy of a Joe Biden Presidency in the midst of a global pandemic and impending Great Recession/Depression.
Where is Joe Biden? Can he beat Trump and is he even trying to? What would a Joe Biden Presidency look like in these times? Where is he and why isn't he leading?
I am saying, Clinton went on air in 2019 saying "Trump knows he is an illegitimate president"
Wow, so the person who lost the presidency despite winning the popular vote, said that? Shocking!
Hilary Clinton is not a democratic office holder or even a political figure at all anymore, she certainly doesn't count.
sure man, I answered to someone claiming verbatim that "democrats don't call Trump election illegitimate" but please go on
Sorry if you thought I meant anyone who is a registered democratic voter. I thought it was clear we were talking about democratic office holders and leadership figures.
she literally goes further and says outright that it was, you're applying your own bias and thereby giving the benefit of doubt that it was taken out of context when you should instead just watch the video yourself
Well to my defense I can’t see the video but knowing the poster accuracy on many things , yeah I find it normal I’m bias with doubt shrug .
I don't watch cable news channels 24/7 like some of you do, so I may have missed something. Please link any democratic leadership figures calling for an increase in the size and scope of government due to Covid.
Do you really want a link proving that democrat governors used emergency powers (=expanded the role of government) more, and for longer, than republican governors?
Do you really want a link proving that democrat governors used emergency powers (=expanded the role of government) more, and for longer, than republican governors?
No, because I agree with that. But that's not what his claim was, and it's not really relevant to federal elections.
Do you want a link showing that all the shutdowns and free money handouts were started by a republican administration? Because that seems far more relevant to me, especially since the republican who shut things down and started the inflation spiral is the one running for president.
It depends on the context and what exactly was said. You sent a photo instead of a link.
Aside from the fact that no, it doesn't depend on context, there is no way to frame "illegitimate president" that doesn't include election fraud allegations, here is the context
No, because I agree with that. But that's not what his claim was, and it's not really relevant to federal elections.
Do you want a link showing that all the shutdowns and free money handouts were started by a republican administration? Because that seems far more relevant to me, especially since the republican who shut things down and started the inflation spiral is the one running for president.
The inflation spiral (if you refer to the massive deficits passed during and after COVID and their inflationary effects) started with an act unanimously passed in the Senate (so fully bipartisan) (CARES), followed by an act of similar magnitude passed exclusively with democrat votes (American Rescue Act), and ending in another act (inflation reduction act), passed again exclusively with democrat votes.
Fiscal power stays with congress not with presidents btw.
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During COVID, the government who has the power to abuse citizen freedoms, the power democrats wanted expanded as much as possible mich more than republicans, is mostly states governments, not the feds.
POTUS has very little power on that matter, because, you know, the constitution doesn't explicitly give that power to the feds and commerce clause shenanigans can't be used to illegally expand those powers.
So it's in the actions of governors and state legislatures that you have to check who wanted to expand the role and scope of government.
And in the aftermath, republicans tried in several states to limit government power for the future, toa void a repeat of the horrors of emergency power abuse, while no democrats (afaik) asked for the same
Well, that's not significant context, all he said was that he agreed be with the woman, and neither gave any reasons.
I don't think this implies anyone thought there was election fraud involved. Though you and some others here don't seem to be able to tell the difference, in neither Clinton nor any leader of the democratic party took any steps to overturn the 2016 election. No lawsuits were filed, there were no attempts to send rival slates to the electoral college, and no one spent the next four years complaining about fraud and fixed elections.
Biden as VP even was in charge of running the official count which made Trump president, with no democratic mob trying to stop the count and hang him. Obama was even there fur the swearing in, and I'm pretty sure Biden was as well. No one snuck out of town in embarrassment to put an end to the tradition of a gracious and peaceful handing over of power.
Those are the reasons most sensible people consider Trump to be a loser who acted like a spoiled child and who the country should be ashamed of having elected.
The inflation spiral (if you refer to the massive deficits passed during and after COVID and their inflationary effects) started with an act unanimously passed in the Senate (so fully bipartisan) (CARES), followed by an act of similar magnitude passed exclusively with democrat votes (American Rescue Act), and ending in another act (inflation reduction act), passed again exclusively with democrat votes.
Fiscal power stays with congress not wi
Yes, I said I agreed that democratic governors did more to extend covid shutdowns than Republicans. I believe the governor of Oregon abused her emergency powers in a way that seemed unconstitutional to me (though again, IANAL).
But the shutdowns were still begun under pressure from the Trump administration.
And I understand that presidents can't officially start a bill in congess, he can greatly influence its creation and passage. Trump claimed full credit for the first unneeded stimulus checks and made sure his signature was on them so we would know who was mostly responsible for them, so I will do him the favor of taking him at his word.
Well, that's not significant context, all he said was that he agreed be with the woman, and neither gave any reasons.
I don't think this implies anyone thought there was election fraud involved. Though you and some others here don't seem to be able to tell the difference, in neither Clinton nor any leader of the democratic party took any steps to overturn the 2016 election. No lawsuits were filed, there were no attempts to send rival slates
Please guide me through a possible scenario, where you consider a president illegitimate but you are not implying any election fraud, because I don't see any.
They spent the years following the election claiming that there had been illegal electoral Russian interference if i remember correctly, did I imagine that?
Please guide me through a possible scenario, where you consider a president illegitimate but you are not implying any election fraud, because I don't see any.
They spent the years following the election claiming that there had been illegal electoral Russian interference if i remember correctly, did I imagine that?
No, I did not hear anyone complain about Russian election interference for years. There's no way you think any Democrat talked as much about that as Trump has about how he was cheated out of the 2020 election.
But one reason to consider him illegitimate would be because of that election interference, which is not at all the same as voter fraud.
Personally I consider any president who didn't win the popular vote to be illegitimate. But that doesn't mean I believe fraud or cheating were involved, I just think the constitution is very flawed.
No, I did not hear anyone complain about Russian election interference for years. There's no way you think any Democrat talked as much about that as Trump has about how he was cheated out of the 2020 election.
But one reason to consider him illegitimate would be because of that election interference, which is not at all the same as voter fraud.
Personally I consider any president who didn't win the popular vote to be illegitimate. But that do
If you can call illegitimate an election won according to the rules, because you dislike the rules, then certainly Trump can claim 2020 was illegitimate because voting from home was allowed ever for people without health problems (for example) in many states, something which he and his guys actually claimed among many other things.
Both takes are a distortion of the meaning of the word "legitimate" and i disagree with the delegitimization of rule-following outcomes.
Legitimate literally means conforming to laws and rules. To be able to claim illegitimacy, you need to claim rules/laws have been broken.
No, I did not hear anyone complain about Russian election interference for years. There's no way you think any Democrat talked as much about that as Trump has about how he was cheated out of the 2020 election.
They went about it for 4 full years. Pelosi final statement on the matter , 18 august 2020
