Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Bibi really ****ed up. Why didn't he make the swap early? Even 3,000 prisoners would have been good as they would have been thrown right into the meat grinder. Israel is running out of places to bomb. Prisoners released now have a pretty good chance of surviving.
Still can make the deal, get the hostages back and start flooding the tunnels.
The ones who are moving towards focus on economic growth and fitting into a global order, and moving past the grips of Jihadism and radical Islam. Lots of them spent huge sums to deradicalize.
So you've got the Saudis, UAE, Bahrain and Oman. Jordan and Egypt are well on their way. I guess Morocco is in there. I think it's safe to say they're generally the least radical.
Victor did this turn into your mass grave story?
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-eas...
Most of the mass grave twitter posts are showing photos from this. These bodies were returned after the IDF scanned the faces to try and find dead hostages.
IDF is leveling entire neighborhoods. These are controlled demolitions by placed explosives -- not places blown up in the middle of fighting. The link is NYT and it is entirely independent research from what Haaretz did. They are making it difficult for people to return. The expulsion plan is still moving forward.
Victor did this turn into your mass grave story?
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-eas...
Most of the mass grave twitter posts are showing photos from this. These bodies were returned after the IDF scanned the faces to try and find dead hostages.
Victor is on vacation
we are now finding mass graves of bound civilians. cowardly genocidal IOF and its supporters like rafiki and mets. you will go down in history in the same breath as all other genocide supporters. hope you guys dont have offspring to see your shameful ideas.
I didn't see anything related to the vacation
I did find it a bit odd that saying I support genocide is fair play, rules wise. You'd think that would be about one of the worst things you could say to a third generation holocaust survivor tbh. I wonder how long it would take to moderate someone telling a black person they support slave trading?
I definitely count myself among those committed to making sure nobody can commit genocide ever again. My family suffered enough.
I did find it a bit odd that saying I support genocide is fair play, rules wise. You'd think that would be about one of the worst things you could say to a third generation holocaust survivor tbh.
Noam Chomsky and Yeshayahu Leibowitz, among many other Jewish academics and intellectuals, would tell you the same, for what it’s worth.
Noam Chomsky would also say that he himself supports genocide I think. It wouldn't be about what people say in posts on 2p2, but their actual participation in the things that are making the genocide happen (like paying taxes in the USA (or baby USA/Canada)).
Noam Chomsky would also say that he himself supports genocide I think. It wouldn't be about what people say in posts on 2p2, but their actual participation in the things that are making the genocide happen (like paying taxes in the USA (or baby USA/Canada)).
I agree. I only bring them up as examples of how cheap, lazy, and unsophisticated a lot of the criticism leveled toward Victor has been.
I don't think this applies, but I had to look up "tu quoque" so maybe that's my failure. I wasn't really attacking rafiki there and certainly not suggesting he was wrong because of some hypocrisy. I wasn't really thinking of him in particular at all with the suggestion that some Jews don't think "Never Again" was meant to apply to everyone.
I don't think this applies, but I had to look up "tu quoque" so maybe that's my failure. I wasn't really attacking rafiki there and certainly not suggesting he was wrong because of some hypocrisy. I wasn't really thinking of him in particular at all with the suggestion that some Jews don't think "Never Again" was meant to apply to everyone.
tu quoque is used when someone is surprised someone else behaves in a bad way, he didn't think that person would ever had tbh.
See how you now wrote SOME jews, you wrote A LOT of jews before, do you realize how huge that difference is? SOME jews might think that yes, why not.
A LOT of jews? hardly credible.
tu quoque is used when someone is surprised someone else behaves in a bad way, he didn't think that person would ever had tbh.
See how you now wrote SOME jews, you wrote A LOT of jews before, do you realize how huge that difference is? SOME jews might think that yes, why not.
A LOT of jews? hardly credible.
Shrug. I don't really know. I used to think it was obvious that it applied to all people and I have found some/a lot of people think it didn't and those people just always understood it that way. It's not like obviously obvious how it is meant.
Do you think it would be bad if Jews meant "it will never happen to Jews again" and "we will defend ourselves" and it was never intended to apply to other people?
Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman told US Secretary of State Antony Blinken in January that he was prepared to normalize relations with Israel as part of rebuilding the Gaza Strip after the war, two US officials relayed to The Times of Israel, noting that he indeed is conditioning that deal on Israeli steps toward Palestinian sovereignty.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/biden-said...
Pretty recent
Khan Younis is done. They're on to Rafah now (where they figure the leadership and hostages have moved to).
Shrug. I don't really know. I used to think it was obvious that it applied to all people and I have found some/a lot of people think it didn't and those people just always understood it that way. It's not like obviously obvious how it is meant.
Do you think it would be bad if Jews meant "it will never happen to Jews again" and "we will defend ourselves" and it was never intended to apply to other people?
Ye it would be bad if jews thought genocide was something fine if it happened to any other group, and only cared about avoiding their own genocide.
It would be bad if jews denied the right to self defense to any other country and thought only they had such a right.
Ye it would be bad if jews thought genocide was something fine if it happened to any other group, and only cared about avoiding their own genocide.
It would be bad if jews denied the right to self defense to any other country and thought only they had such a right.
If "Never Again" means "we won't allow this to happen to Jews again" that wouldn't mean Jews are ok with genociding other people.
If you were robbed and decided to carry a gun and said "no one is ever going to rob me again" would that mean that you are ok with other people being robbed?
Well, I had thought that Jews really meant no one will ever be genocided again and that Jews felt a special obligation to prevent any genocide of anyone if they could and that's what it was about. Not meaning that wouldn't be the same as "genocide is ok".
If "Never Again" means "we won't allow this to happen to Jews again" that wouldn't mean Jews are ok with genociding other people.
If you were robbed and decided to carry a gun and said "no one is ever going to rob me again" would that mean that you are ok with other people being robbed?
Well, I had thought that Jews really meant no one will ever be genocided again and that Jews felt a special obligation to prevent any genocide of anyone if
I'm not Jewish, but I always just kind of assumed it meant never again to the Jews. For example, I don't think they ever felt a unique obligation to prevent other genocides that have occurred since WWII in other places like Rwanda, Cambodia, etc.
Shrug. I don't really know. I used to think it was obvious that it applied to all people and I have found some/a lot of people think it didn't and those people just always understood it that way. It's not like obviously obvious how it is meant.
Do you think it would be bad if Jews meant "it will never happen to Jews again" and "we will defend ourselves" and it was never intended to apply to other people?
Zionism is a nationalist movement, so it is obvious that their 'Never again' only applied to Jews. Which is fair enough given the history, and the limits of their interest and responsibility, but it is a little problematic when they deny the nationhood of their target group and claim the right to diminish that target group's population at will and by violence. Although apparently you can say what you like about Arabs in this forum because the mod has determined that 'Arab's aren't a race', which, under North America's deeply weird racial rules, not recognised anywhere else on Earth, means all bets are off.
