Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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23645 Replies
We should keep working to try to reduce it because no number is accepatble
and no-one has a defense of 'that was acceptable'
I would actually support doing all those things. Except for the sterilization - no need to do that I as I would be fine putting those people into the execution/lifetime imprisonment category. Anyone who doesn't support any of those things is definitely not as anti-child abuse and anti-rape as I am.
That's because it's not for the us to decide if the settlements are illegal
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palest...
The buffer zone will be necessary especially if Israeli isn't going to be an occupying military force
"Despite international objections " is hilarious. Nobody has a plan to keep Israel safe but don't do anything to ensure your safety after the war!
The US can consider anything they dislike illegal and sanction accordingly. It's not for the US to decide if some individuals are linked to violence in a foreign country as well, that's for local courts isn't it?
You support mandating government cameras in all homes?
Check the sterilization: i wrote execution, for all sex related offenders, and sterilization for all violent offenders (under the known correlate that violent male criminals have a higher chance to rape and abuse children)
I've never once heard anyone suggest that "Never again" is somehow only applicable to one group of people, seems like a deranged lesson to take away from WWII.
Like other than international law you mean?
You're definitely not as anti-rape as somone who would support executing all men at birth
I believe there's a heavily qualified defense of necessity.
It's good to see some commitment to international law but not many of us will change our views about the politcs/morality of this conflict because of international law.
Jfc, I can see why you don't want to live any longer. That sounds pretty damn miserable.
Numerous people in this thread have argued otherwise and called civilian deaths a “necessary evil” with a few pithy qualifiers like “awful, sad”.
And I asked originally because if the answer for some is that there is no limit to acceptable civilian death in the face of obtaining absolute security for Israel’s borders and “annihilating” Hamas, then the genocide question becomes less of a question and more of a foreseeable outcome.
So I am again asking the hardliners, where is the line for acceptable civilian death?
Necessary evil is another way of saying the same thing. There's no line on the number of them.
What there should be is answering to a court (plus the electorate). Were all your evil acts necessary? If not then your guilty of heinous acts inlcuding, quite possibly, war crimes.
There is no fixed line inasmuch as you don't tell your enemy: you know, if you increase the number of meat shield to X, we actually let you be a terrorist in peace forever.
So, all civilian lives that Hamas put in jeopardy are free game, no matter the amount, and every single one of them is entirely and exclusively murdered by Hamas, is it's used as a meat shield.
If Hamas has offices in a building, they killed all the residents and visitors of that building.
If Hamas personnel goes to a hospital, they are murdering civilians in that hospital.
And so on.
Aside from that, the line is quite low actually.
If civilians aren't used as meat shield it's very rare you are justified killing them in a modern war
It depends what outcome is obtained in the end, doesn't it?
The outcomes in WW2 in the end, largely justified the price. Freedom and democracy over this much time was worth that price.
In this case is the outcome a future Gaza where the highest paying job isn't "suicide bomber"? And where life in Israel isn't defined by how often your children run to bomb shelters, or how often you get pogromed?
You actually need an outcome to justify a price.
Which price are you thinking of for WW2?
I really don't think Dresda bombing helped winning the war that much if at all for example
I think when the casualties get to 50,000+ the Biden admin will be under enough pressure that they get serious about a ceasefire.
Yes, for all homes housing minors.
I understand, but I would never allow violent offenders to be free again, so really no need to sterilize them.
Please. Executing those not convicted of a crime would be completely unfair.
a necessary evil perhaps
Then you're mistaken, and it's spelt 'Dresden'. It was the largest intact centre of munitions production in the Third Reich in February 1945, with over 140 vital war factories engaged in precision light engineering, producing machine guns and ammunition, field radios, field telephones, gunsights, bombsights, U-boat periscopes, bomb fuses, shell fuses, torpedo fuses, torpedo steering and guidance systems, V-1 cruise missile steering and guidance systems, V-2 ballistic missile steering and guidance systems, Me262 jet-fighter tail units, Me262 and Fw190 fighter instrument panels, and I could go on. There was every reason to bomb it and no reason not to. The high death toll was due to poor air-raid precautions on the ground. Most of those who died could have walked away from the fire zone long before the firestorm occurred if they had not been given government advice to 'remain in shelter'. Many thousands more chose to ignore that advice, and walked, and lived.
Has Dunyian (?) posted since Lucion started?
(Not that I'm asking for any bans. I'm not.)
I have no idea, but Lucion is way more data-focused. Doubt they are the same person.
They certainly have different stories (Dunyian from USA and Lucion not). Probably not the same. But same/similar threads/interests and volume.