The costs of trans visibility

Do you not understand economic incentives? Or do you think they only work on certain people?

People also ask
What state can minors drink with parents?
With the exception of five states (Alabama, Arkansas, Idaho, New Hampshire, and West Virginia), all states and DC allow underage consumption of alcohol under limited circumstances such as in the presence of parents, for religious or medical purposes, or while in a class that requires tasting

Did you read the link I sent about California policy? Maybe there is an exemption for religious purposes, but I don't think that proves autonomy for minors. Yes, I had a sip of wine at mass when I was young, but I only went there to begin with because my parents made me go.

And I've never heard of children going to wine tasting classes, or anyone drinking for medical purposes.

I don't know what to tell you about what you don't know. Why you think the ca article is controlling is beyond me, other than maybe it's 6,not five states per Google.

I was responding to luciom's comment that was the opposite premise, that teachers are pushing gay students to become trans. What teacher in the real world is out of the blue pushing a gay student to think they're trans. Thats bs. There is a big difference between a male attracted to other males and a male who has gender incongruence and identifies as a woman.

Ok. Why should I think that the Canadian Pediatric Society and Alberta Medical Association are not an appropriate "counsel of experts" and instead are "radicalized"? You don't get to pretend that you care about the counsel of expert doctors if you reject them as soon as they don't fit your own ideology.

Being trans sure isnt rewarded socially. That's something you hear from the right all the time--that trans (or gay) people want special treatment. That's laughable.

What they want is equal treatment and that's what the right cant stand. Ability to marry who they love? Ability to not get fired from your job just because the company doesnt like trans people? Ability to not have to worry about getting beat up if you go to a bar?

There is no "reward". Coming out as trans is full of dangerous and negative repercussions. So the idea that someone would claim to be trans just for the rewards is backwards from reality.

Reminds me of a seminar lecture I saw on TV. . The woman was addressing an all white audience. She asked how many people felt black people in the US were treated the same or better than whites. Almost everyone raised their hand. Then she asked how many people would be willing to switch and be treated as black people are, and no one raised their hands.

Her point was that while everyone paid lip service to the idea that blacks are treated the same as whites in society, inside they knew that just wasnt true.

Not a very scientific poll. Here's the methodology. Interesting, though, that even when lying only 10% chose to list black as their minority.

Methodology

All data found within this report derives from a survey commissioned by Intelligent.com and conducted online by survey platform Pollfish. In total, 1,250 white Americans were surveyed. To qualify for the survey, each respondent had to have previously applied to a college or university in the U.S. Appropriate respondents were found via a screening question. This survey was conducted on July 13, 2021. All respondents were asked to answer all questions truthfully and to the best of their abilities.

Is it more or less scientific than this?

Way less.

You pasted something from somewhere, but you didn't say where it came from, and it is extremely vague. I'm guessing in most states it is allowed only for religious reasons, and really has nothing to do with the point you were trying to make about minors in the US generally having some autonomy. They really don't have any at all apart from what parents are willing to give them.

I have to disagree somewhat with this. First, AFAIK, there is nowhere in the US that trans people aren't allowed to marry whomever they want.

Second, while there are definitely some negative repercussions, I think it is disingenuous to say there could be no reward. In some areas and social groups, there is a lot of cheerleading for trans people that no other group of people seems to get. I see this myself in the indie rock scene in Portland. And this is mostly among people in their 20s and 30s. I have to imagine it is even considered more positively in some younger peer groups.

Finally, the negative repercussions you mention likely aren't going to be seen as problems by teenagers, because they do not apply to them. No teenager is worried about getting beat up in a bar, because they can't go into a bar. Hardly any teens are worried about getting fired from their jobs, because either they don't have jobs to begin with or they have minimum wage jobs which aren't something they worry about keeping.

While they may suffer these negative repercussions in the future, they aren't really considering that, or they are hopeful that by the time they are adults, society will have changed enough that those things will be very rare. And guess what, I am hopeful they will be very rare as well, as I imagine you also do.

I agree that very few teenagers are going to be convinced they are trans based on anything said by their teachers. But I think their peers may be very influential in their decision, and peers in many areas are likely not only supportive of that decision but possibly pushing them towards it. Popular media figures (musicians, actors, social media stars) are also very influential with many teens, and these groups are generally far more supportive of trans people than is the general public.

Most teens (even more than most adults) want to be in whatever group is currently popular, and trans people seem to be very popular these days, at least in the opinions of anyone teens are likely to care about.

So would you ban teachers to suggest to a kid they might be trans, if they show any behavior stereotypically linked to the opposite sex?

A 11 y old might not yet be attracted sexually to either sex, but might have "gender non conforming" behavior (the language sounds Orwellian btw).

Would you accept to consider it a criminal matter if a teacher of a 10y girl who likes contact sports and is otherwise masculine in some aspects (prefers to play with boys for example) starts talking her about trans ness and how she might be trans?

Because it's harder to fake being black, while you can be white looking and have native or Latino blood man.

Being trans VS being "just gay" is definitely rewarded socially right now in schools with strong "gender affirming" policies and a body of teachers on the extreme left.

The reward is being treated as a special person in need vs not being considered as anything particularly worthwhile of special attentions by teachers.

We are talking school settings

As for the CPS , just check the document they published.

It has all the radical left language warping monstrosities

https://cps.ca/en/documents/position/an-...

As for the AMA, their statements about the new law were much more moderate from what I read, they just lamented not being asked beforehand.

So I won't (yet?) Sign them off as radically compromised, for now they look like a normal lobby motivated only by self interest and financial interest

I think that is an absolute strawman created by the right to scare parents about what goes on in schools. What teacher is going to notice a 10 year old girl playing with boys, and think "I should have a talk with her to see if she would be interested in being transgender? If that has evered happened it would have been incredibly rare. And as I stated earlier, what teacher would do that? A straight teacher? Gay? Trans?

It's like the scare mongers passing bathroom bills claiming that without them, transgender woman would enter a womaens restroom and rape them. Never mind that no one could cite an example of that happening. And the most ridiculous part of that argument was the idea that straight men (probably 99.9% of all rapists of straight women) would be willing to ignore the laws prohibiting rape, but would somehow be deterred from following a woman into a womens restroom just because the sign on the doorcsays women.

Do some reading on the experiences of transgender kids in high school and how they are treated. They are filled with examples of discrimination, ridicule, harrassment, etc byboth students and teachers. Like the case of a student woh identifies and presents as a girl, and students know her only as a girl, yet a teacher decides its their responsibility to out this student in front of the class by using male pronouns and calling him by his birth name. And they say they are compelled to do it because of their religious beliefs.

Im pretty sure no kids are walking around thinking, wow, that trans kid is so cool and special I want to get treated like her. All the stuff you say is special treatment is just trans people seeking to be treated as other students.

My point was that Luciom's belief that we have a bright line rule that kids don't get to make their own choices until they are eighteen is incorrect. He keeps saying why should we let them making choices about their bodies when we won't let them drink a beer or get a tattoo. I gave four examples of them being able to drink a beer, obtain meds, have medical procedure, input where they live despite them being below that age. He had already mentioned being allowed to marry and get emancipated.

You latched onto one of those and want to argue it based on a ca article and your lack of knowledge.

As i said, it would most probably be a straigth radical leftist teacher who feels he is "an ally" and who married the whole package of trans activism ideology.

And it's already happening, daily, there are actual guidelines informing teacher to act in the presence of gender non conform behaviour.

They tell teachers in elementary school to look for those behaviours and act "inclusively" (ie mention trans-ness and so on).

I think any mention of trans-ness in elementary school setting is a moral abomination same as it would be to discuss anal sex in those settings. 6 to 10 y old kids are not capable at all to understand what trans-ness means, unless you believe the whole package of nonsense the left spews out constantly, about gender being completly disconnected from biology and so you can just be the gender you want at any time (even multiple, whatever that might actually mean in reality) and it's always normal and good and proper.

But under radical left ideology, how can a 8y old feel trans if not by gender stereotyped behavior? he has no sexual attraction. His genitalia are very underdeveloped, the main body differences between males and females aren't there yet (breast, muscular mass, body hair).

Aside from the fact that claiming a 8y can be trans is by itself an inane proposition, once you claim they can be, what are you going to look at to determine if someone that age is in fact trans, if not behavior?

No, my point there are choices that are transparently exceptionally less relevant for life outcomes, and requiring less maturity than permanently modifying your own body parts and internal chemistry, that we don't allow to minors.

You didn't give examples of minors able to get a beer in normal settings without parental approval.

And the tatoo thing still stands (and it's a minor body modification at that).

It's incredible to take arms against puberty blockers being banned under 16 if you don't take arms against tatoos being banned under 16

So a survey that published it's results and methods to allow anyone who cares to critically evaluate the validity is a worse scientific method than *checks notes* your memory of a TV show you once saw that did a show of hands.

Okay.

There isn't an economic incentive for the treatment providers. Doctors get paid the same amount whether they write a prescription or not. Psychologists and other mental health providers get paid the same amount whether they suggest one thing or another. School staff are salaried and there isn't a shortage of kids with all sorts of problems to keep them busy.

Sure a doctor suggesting you have no medical condition to be treated, dismissing you, is going to be paid the same as someone who convinces you , you need medications and then will come back for more, and visits, and tests, and so on.

A "top surgery" (removal of breasts) is 5k+ for the surgeon fees alone

https://www.topsurgery.net/costs/#:~:tex....