ex-President Trump
I assume it's still acceptable to have a Trump thread in a Politics forum?
So this is an obvious lie - basically aimed at low-info Boomers like my religions aunts. I have two questions:
a) Is anyone here who supports Trump bothered by lies like this?
b) Does anyone know what he's even talking about here? Like is there some grain of truth that he's embellishing on bigly?
Socialist who moved a tad to the center, still leftist. I am not using those words randomly, he was friend and politically allied with Craxi (socialist leader who had a ton of power for a while) for many years, and many of the people he took onboard when he created his party in the 90s were socialists. For a while his spokesman was an ex italian communist party member.
When Berlusconi united his party with the only normal rightwing party in italy (Fini party, alleanza nazionale), it lasted only a couple of years before Berlusconi got angry at him and threw him away in a famous scene
Slightly ? Lol
Did u read it ?
Obviously not…..
Yes 2016 was a rejection vote of the system and smart people saw how bad an idea it was to put a clown as president .
2020 clearly corrected that ….
But hey i won’t argue with someone who can’t read and can’t provide any data to support his claims .
Can you tell me all the bad things that happened while having a clown as President?
Trump did some bad things but the democrats agreed with many of them :-(
Trump FDA went nutz against vaping, and democrats agreed all along.
Trump increased tariffs with many countries and Biden kept most of them.
Leftist seems like mostly a slur in your book, and right-wing seems neutral or good, so let's come at this a different way.
Which heads of state or contenders for head of state in the Western world are right wing in your opinion?
In other words, who do you like?
The truth is that Trump didn't really accomplish much in terms of policy. His execution was extremely poor, which is often the case when you surround yourself with a combination of idiots and people with a limited understanding of government.
His primary legacy will be his overwhelming contribution to the degradation of functional government and democracy around the world. He did this mainly by lying to a degree that was previously thought to be non-viable, openly courting the worst elements in American society, and generally doing whatever he could to undermine a common understanding of objective reality.
He wasn't patient zero, of course, but he was a mighty accelerant.
Leftist seems like mostly a slur in your book, and right-wing seems neutral or good, so let's come at this a different way.
Which heads of state or contenders for head of state in the Western world are right wing in your opinion?
In other words, who do you like?
No i use the radical when i want a slur-like expression.
But yes given that i am a rightwing pragmatic libertarian (that means i give more weight to economic freedom than to other kind of freedom if forced to choose at gunpoint) right is vaguely closer to my pov than left, when it's about the economic.
Currently we finally have one "almost normal" rightwing person (under my definition which mostly is about economics as the most important set of freedoms) available as an example, Milei, among heads of state/contenders.
Milei talk at the WEF is my political ideology more or less, at least wrt the role of the state in the economy, who the enemies are and so on. Collectivism bein NEVER the solution to anything, rather being very often the principal cause of every problem we have in human societies currently (as technology helped us beat the rest of the problems).
(stars around min 6:00)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfcd0gWN...
Bolsonaro was fine even if much more moderate (too much for my taste): when he bragged about unilaterally dropping tariffs on a bunch of stuff, that what's make me feel good in politics (and ofc, not defending lockdowns). He didn't control parliament so he actually had very limited power wrt the economy but he didn't even try to do too much. He deregulated when he had the chance though, so decent.
BoJo had some normal (for me) rightwing position when he said like "with brexit we can have less regulation on biotech and the like, and that's strictly better for society". But ofc he butchered brexit leaving the european market so...
But he was a crazy, radical leftist on the climate and lockdowns so, not good enough.
Meloni is moderate center left, like Biden. Not terrible, not catastrophic, but we deserver better.
Orban would be decently right on the economics but he is too autocratic in general, so not my first pick (still a far far preferable human being to any radical leftist to be clear). Wilders in the netherlands seems decently rightwing, but we haven't seen him with power yet so i wait to see what his actions are, words are easy.
De Santis would be decent enough (being right on the biggest moral question of our age, covid management, was really important for me) and my pick to tell you who "in real life" is ok for me (until proven wrong if he becomes a collectivist on the economy when governing, but that doesn't look the case at least in Florida), but now we have Milei who is so so so so much better that he puts RDS in the dust.
The truth is that Trump didn't really accomplish much in terms of policy. His execution was extremely poor, which is often the case when you surround yourself with a combination of idiots and people with a limited understanding of government.
His primary legacy will be his overwhelming contribution to the degradation of functional government and democracy around the world. He did this mainly by lying to a degree that was previously thought
Lol he nominated Powell fo the fed, who changed inflation targeting and possibly singlehandedly allowed the quickest recovery in american history (with the help of an unanimous senate ofc) ;
he changed the face of SCOTUS for the following decades.
You can hate Powell or the current SCOTUS setup but if that's not a legacy, nothing is.
The truth is that Trump didn't really accomplish much in terms of policy. His execution was extremely poor, which is often the case when you surround yourself with a combination of idiots and people with a limited understanding of government.
His primary legacy will be his overwhelming contribution to the degradation of functional government and democracy around the world. He did this mainly by lying to a degree that was previously thought
I do believe his foreign policy detered wars
And economy was great before covid
lol
Anything you believe about the economy under Trump, you have to believe for Obama second term, and viceversa for democrats.
Every graph of the economy looks like Trump being a direct continuation of Obama
, no change in trend or slope or anything, just the third Obama term.
Lol he nominated Powell fo the fed, who changed inflation targeting and possibly singlehandedly allowed the quickest recovery in american history (with the help of an unanimous senate ofc) ;
he changed the face of SCOTUS for the following decades.
You can hate Powell or the current SCOTUS setup but if that's not a legacy, nothing is.
Trump just happened to be a Republican in office when when three vacancies came up. He selected exactly the sorts of candidates that any Republican in the current environment would have selected. He didn't do anything noteworthy. He just appointed SCOTUS justices when he had the opportunity to do so.
Powell isn't especially controversial either way. He has worked for Democrats and Republicans. He was nominated to the Federal Reserve Board of Governors by Obama.
Trump just happened to be a Republican in office when when three vacancies came up. He selected exactly the sorts of candidates that any Republican in the current environment would have selected. He didn't do anything noteworthy. He just appointed SCOTUS justices when he had the opportunity to do so.
Powell isn't especially controversial either way. He has worked for Democrats and Republicans. He was nominated to the Federal Reserve
Trump could have nominated other people to the court and to the fed but he didn't.
Did he behave like a run of the mill normal republican in those nominations? sure he did. The luck of the roll allowed him to have a disproportioned role in such nominations, and to make legacy, it's still legacy even if someone else in his shoes from the same party would have probably behaved similarly.
Doesnt the fact that for the most important job in the country (and the planet), fed chair, he nominated a completly bi partisan pick which , as you mention, Obama also liked, go counter the totality of the purported narrative about trump "dismantling norms" and "destroying democracy" and whatnot?
That was the most important pick, and he picks a bipartisan moderate technocratic guy? and that's the crazy autoritarian potus who breaks the world? come again?
Lowest job and GDP growth for a president’s first term in almost a hundred years even pre covid. And a fair response is “look we had 8 straight years of pretty robust growth under Obama and it would have been very hard to keep that going” I would agree. But Trump got elected bashing growth under Obama and vowing to fix it but instead had worse numbers even pre covid. They can’t have it both ways
Jared Kushner honestly thought peace in the Middle East could be achieved by essentially bribing various Arab countries to enter into trade/development deals with Israel and the Israeli/Palestinian conflict was a mere boundary dispute. Aside from the war in Yemen and the current war in Gaza, itÂ’s hard to think of any actual impact Trump foreign policy had.
Governments are legal entities that own assets. The owners of the assets should decide how the assets are used.
As i tried to tell you when we discussed border, "public land" in the USA doesn't mean "land owned by every human being", rather it means land owned by the constituents of the public entity.
Not sure why you hate property rights or why you think a county park in the USA is co-owned by brasilians, chinese and indian people, but it is
Lol at someone who is talking about the legal rights of governments as owners of the country and describes themselves as libertarian. There's a name for Statists for traditional social values (see you including culture war nonsense in your attack on Democrats) and believers in a natural social hierarchy.
And you called the Fini Party the "normal right-wing" party of Italy. That's your party?
About Gianfranco Fini, your party's prior leader (or should I say Fuhrer) and founder:
During his time as national secretary, he confirmed the MSI's role as the inheritors of Benito Mussolini's Fascist legacy with a number of famous polemical statements, including: "Dear comrades, MSI claims its right to refer to fascism" (1988), "We are fascists, the heirs of fascism, the fascism of the year 2000" (1991), "After almost half a century, the idea of fascism is alive" (1992), "There are phases where freedom is not among the key values" (1994), "Mussolini was the greatest Italian statesman of the twentieth century", "Fascism has a tradition of honesty, correctness and good government" (1994).[7]
So, American Trumpers in this thread, you have someone who is probably a card carrying, marching in the street, Italian Fascist irresistibly drawn to your dear leader.
Lowest job and GDP growth for a president’s first term in almost a hundred years even pre covid. And a fair response is “look we had 8 straight years of pretty robust growth under Obama and it would have been very hard to keep that going” I would agree. But Trump got elected bashing growth under Obama and vowing to fix it but instead had worse numbers even pre covid. They can’t have it bo
"lowest job growth "roflmao he got to the lowest unemployment in 50+ years, there was no more room to grow.
Obama did well, Trump did well, (if we want to claim potus has a causal relationship with the economy); anyone denying either is in bad faith
I mean if the war in gaza after 3 years of Biden is caused by Trump then everything goes i guess. Too hard to admit it's just what terrorists do, and neither Trump or Biden have any responsibility with that?
Lol at someone who is talking about the legal rights of governments as owners of the country and describes themselves as libertarian. There's a name for Statists for traditional social values (see you including culture war nonsense in your attack on Democrats) and believers in a natural social hierarchy.
And you called the Fini Party the "normal right-wing" party of Italy. That's your party?
About Gianfranco Fini, your party's prior leader
What's the source lol, some angry italian communist who invented all those quotes?
anyway not my party (and it doesn't exist anymore), too leftwing on the economy (like every italian party)
So, American Trumpers in this thread, you have someone who is probably a card carrying, marching in the street, Italian Fascist irresistibly drawn to your dear leader.
I literally wrote that the best case scenario is Biden president with a republican senate but i guess from an open border libertarian for EPA , can't expect any logic or sense.
Doesnt the fact that for the most important job in the country (and the planet), fed chair, he nominated a completly bi partisan pick which , as you mention, Obama also liked, go counter the totality of the purported narrative about trump "dismantling norms" and "destroying democracy" and whatnot?
That was the most important pick, and he picks a bipartisan moderate technocratic guy? and that's the crazy autoritarian potus who breaks the worl
It's true. Not everything that Trump did was in furtherance of undermining functional government and democracy. A lot of things he did were. But not literally everything.
I literally wrote that the best case scenario is Biden president with a republican senate but i guess from an open border libertarian for EPA , can't expect any logic or sense.
I think a Republican senate is very likely no way the Dems keep Manchin's seat and Montana could be in Jeopardy as well
I think a Republican senate is very likely no way the Dems keep Manchin's seat and Montana could be in Jeopardy as well
All analysts give the Senate 50-47, with 3 tossups.
Meaning republican have the edge.
Which is why we shouldn't worry at all about Biden winning. Biden being POTUS without a democrat senate is very good for the nation and the world.
I am opening up to the possibility that because of technicalities, perhaps because of his personal responsibility, or because his guys ****ed up, in some states the actions he proposed were technically illegal for various reasons.
But wrt the Georgia situation in particular, the people who expedited their cases and settled only admitted minor misdemeanors.
Tbh the indictment using RICO state law looks as a travesty but we will wait and see what courts determine.
I am opening up to the possibility that because of technicalities, perhaps because of his personal responsibility, or because his guys ****ed up, in some states the actions he proposed were technically illegal for various reasons.
But wrt the Georgia situation in particular, the people who expedited their cases and settled only admitted minor misdemeanors.
Tbh the indictment using RICO state law looks as a travesty but we will wait and see w
What is the difference between illegal and technically illegal?
Are you suggesting that Trump urged people to violate laws that shouldn't exist?
