US Immigration Crisis

Doesn't get more racist than this.

(So I thought. I was wrong.)

by microbet P

Italy, in particular and maybe second only to Japan, is absolutely ****ed without immigration.

There are like twice as many 50 year olds as people being born. The median age is 48.1 years old, behind only a couple microscopic countries and Japan. In 30 years, when all those 50 somethings are going to be 80 something, it's going to be ugly.

Imagine being Italian and against immigration.

You should check out Taiwan and South Korea. Still lower median age but even lower birth rates so they are catching up fast.

If you can provide non-racist reasonings for wanting this then I'll start to give you the benefit of the doubt. You know, statistics based logic and reasoning. Nothing about illegals being "criminals" or "sent by the cartels", or being "garbage".

Because when you look into it, you realize there has been a fluctuating base of illegal immigrants in the US since the 60s (longer, but specifically Latin Americans) that has stayed fairly consistent and has actually decreased as a % of population the last 30 years. Their kids speak english, earn at the national average, go to college at a significantly higher rate than white people, pay taxes, etc. There is no shortage of jobs, there is no shortage of housing, there is no resource crunch. Its all been fabricated to make you hate foreigners.

You don't get to worship this guy and then claim ignorance. That isn't how reality works.

He is openly a massive piece of ****. That has literally been his schtick since the 80s. Evil movie villains were based off him in the late 80s and early 90s because he was such a caricature of evil.

First off so you can properly vet them to ensure they do not have a criminal record and on a terrorist watch list . Why wouldn't you want to bring in legal immigrants that have the skills industry is in demand for. As well when your looking at seasonal workers issue seasonal work visas.

If there is no shortage of housing why are they all being placed in Hotels, Rec centers and schools.

Why not just set the number high 2 million legal immigrants per year and give them work visas immediately

There certainly is no shortage of jobs currently in the USA (there is in a lot of areas of italy).

There certainly is a severe shortage of housing in many cities and metropolitan areas of the USA (there isn't any in Italy outside of a very few specific places).

But the idea of considering people at the american border right now, or the asylum seeking people arriving by boats in Italy recently, as comparable to the previous other kind of illegal immigration (which both in the USA and in Italy has always, overwhelmingly, be about VISA overstay, not illegal entrance), is an attempted fraud.

Immigration isn't all the same

We already do all of that. The US is ****ing massive. People will get in. You can sneak into Mexico or Canada right now if you wanted to, but you don't want to, so you don't do it.

Are they supposed to sleep on the street? Not sure what you mean by this. Should we have giant immigrant housing blocks or something?

So then you let in 2 million immigrants legally and there are still just as many illegal immigrants coming in. It literally solves nothing but gives more fuel for racism.

So i mean if other people hate another politician enough, they are allowed to throw countless insults to anyone who votes for that politician in this forum? i am simply asking what the rules are.

Or is there a list of the voter groups that can be insulted available?

Fact is, for decades the USA were able to reduce illegal immigration to very low levels. And that was with less money spent on border control than today, and far worse technology.

It's strange you claim it would be impossible to control the border at least the same as it was in the 50s, why do you claim that?

Wrong, because Democratic voters generally support "laws" and vote for candidates who say they'll uphold them.

The Republican candidate runs on an openly racist, nativist campaign focused on building a giant fascist wall to defend against Mexican rapists and keeping people from shithole countries out of the US. That was the centerpiece of Trump's campaign. Anyone who voted for the GOP is very explicitly on board with this brand of racist idiocy.

lol, both of the borders were wide open in the 1950s, what on earth are you talking about. You could cross over to canada without even having a passport, they gave zero ****s.

You claim to be a libertarian, so maybe you've seen this. It wasn't about border control. It was about legalizing the people who were crossing.

https://www.cato.org/blog/enforcement-di....

You could cross into Mexico without a passport until 2008.

As per your link, they both increased legal immigration and forcefully fought against illegal immigration. It wasn't just legalization of everyone

You don't get to support a racist president and laud his racist policies and claim that being called racist is an insult. At that point its a statement of fact.

The fact of the matter is this: Illegal immigration is, at worst, a net neutral. The limited data we have proves that.

Spending resources to combat a net neutral is unquestionably negative. Money on a fence, money on detention centers, money on border patrol. All a ****ing waste.

You quite literally sound like Viktor feeling he is allowed to call anyone who votes for Biden a "genocide supporter", don't you realize that?

Either a genocide supporter or someone too ignorant to know or care. Either way it's not a good look at all.

In the EU the data is quite clear and it's a huge drag on the economy, at least the asylum seekers part (in good part because of our rules and our constitutions).

I can believe that illegal immigration in aggregate in the USA could be approx a net neutral fiscally and/or for the economy. But it comes with an added problem (which doesn't exist in the EU) , which is the children of those illegal immigrants will be citizens, and those will be expensive for the country.

For example they are almost all immediatly allowed to access medicaid.

Plyler v Doe forces states to pay for the education of illegal immigrant minors (we are talking foreign born here).

Illegal immigrants are also less educated than legal immigrants (main reason they are illegal is they can't enter the country normally you know).

Back to the EU, just for reference because i suppose you don't know how it works here (and why should you, you are not paying for it), there are some differences among countries but roughly the idea is that the constitution interpretation is such that citizen provisions apply to illegal aliens. Including healthcare and welfare in general. At least in Italy that's certainly the case. We can't even deport someone if he is sick (this includes any chronicity) and the receiving country doesn't have free healthcare at western levels of care. Yes that means that once a diabetic person from a thirld world country enters Italy, he is allowed to stay indefinitly and we have to pay for it.

Something like 60% of syrian refugees, 40% from somalia/ethiopia, are on welfare, 3-5 years after being allowed refugee status, in Germany.

The fact that european countries sorely need immigrant workers with skillsets in many sectors of the economy doesn't mean that the people arriving here on boat, staying on welfare (because of international law) as asylum seekers until they get an answer, which they then appeal (this takes years) if negative, are anything clsoe to be positive contributors to society.

They are just gaming a system of rules we stupidly self-imposed on us, making our problems worse.

And the worst effect of all this is that the population becomes intolerant of the *actual good immigrants we desperately need*, because when train stations and central plazas are full of asylum seekers without nothing to do who increase petty criminality rates, it's easy to make the mistake "brown people" in general are bad for our societies (they aren't, but current events make it easier for that bias to prevail).

So because of our unwillingness to forcefully fight against illegal immigration, especially the "boat people" one, we actually end up jeopardizing any chance of reforming legal immigration to the better (for ex making it much easier for anyone who is good at any job we need to fill to come and stay and be treated like one of us), and of creating the conditions for those useful, indispensable legal immigrants to become fully fledged citizens.

Supporting illegal immigration is the best way to help actually racist politicians , at least in the EU

As you know, every year for as long as I can remember the US has been voted the best or one of the best countries in the world (votes were tallied using net immigration) and as the best country in the world why shouldn't we be more selective and increase the percentage of merit based immigration like many other countries do. This would also allow us to vet more people coming into the country.

I know you are working hard on the "anyone who questions illegal immigration is racist" idea, but it just doesn't hold up when people are pro-immigration too. It makes you sound as stupid as the majority of dems who called trump racist when he said some mexicans are better than other mexicans.

I donate a few pennies and a few seconds of my time a year to a charity that helps settle (jobs, homes, clothes, schools, etc.) refugees. I agree that there is no shortage of jobs or homes for them or anyone else. There is an infinite amount of current and future homes in the US and the same can be said about jobs (jobs are only infinite if minimum wage isn't too high).

I don't dislike any immigrant (legal or illegal). I just dislike the system that isn't more open to bringing in immigrants that are the most likely to succeed and help the country as a whole.

Possibly true here as well. Unless I say otherwise I am generally posting about what is right and wrong, not what is strategic. It's like how civil rights can lead to a backlash. Many people are awful and other people doing good can motivate them.

Biden isn't running on the "I support Israel" platform, but Trump is running on the "stop immigration from **** hole countries" platform

Because its incredibly expensive and time consuming and provides minimal (if any?) long term benefit

We already have this system. The legal immigration is not impacted by illegal immigration. Illegal immigration is impossible to regulate without extreme dedication of resources. Its like the war on drugs. This isn't exactly rocket science.

Ah yes, the bogus asylum claims coming from people in *checks notes* dangerously unsafe places.