[Bodog/Bovada/Ignition] Unofficial Thread

My best guess would be that the botfarm have becoming more and more profitable and they have expanded from it. It seemed to me that they heavily focused on 500 zone initially (possibly lower games as well, I haven't played below nl500 so can't speak about that). After they conquered 500 zone they went on to 500 and 1k, possibly around the same time. Not entirely sure if it was because the old profile was bad, the lack of blatant collusion or that there just wasn't that many of them. Could been a combination of all three. Either way you could still have a high winrate at those stakes. Eventually they started colluding harder and they multiplied faster, at some point these games became extremely tough to beat for a big winrate. For a long time 2k was the softest stake around, but as of very recently (<6 months) they have expanded to playing 2k as well.

Even if you own them in occasional hands you can never beat them in the long run, they are going to bleed out all human pros out.

This is the part that I am struggling with (haven't play professionally since black Friday but I still play for side income). My win rate over the last 100K hands at 500NL and 200NL went from 10bb+ to less than 3. When I play, I still win vs the clearly recreational players ... but more than 2/3 of that I am giving right back to the cheaters. I will be playing in a game where I have 3 people marked as colluders but I am still playing because I have one marked as weak. Essentially, the cheaters win either way because they either take the money from the weak player or I do but they are skimming most of that off of me. By playing in the games at all, we are helping the cheaters. Part of me wants them to just shut down the poker all together then and let those weak players lose their money to sports betting and black jack. Sickening that people are making so much money off cheating us and we can't do anything about it.

How about switch games? Sorry to be that guy lol

Seems a dumb comment, not everyone can just "switch games". Switch where? to ACR? to HORSE?

by mreps P

SB had Jd8h. Table broke a couple of hands later.

BB had Ah4c

Both players appeared to be high vipip, high pfr, high 3bet aggro whales.

Edit: We had less than a 40 hand sample.

Here is a hand between the two suspected players. This was also the first hand of the 3 handed game.

BB had Ts9c and BTN had 9sJs

jUsT pLAy liVE PokER

Just an update. My funds are still missing from my account. I contacted support and I still have not heard back from them. $325 still missing from my ****ing account. I am absolutely certain that I did not Play blackjack with this money

Looking for a rakeback deal somewhere. I already have verified Ignition and Bovada accounts which I have not played on. DM please.

Another multi accounting rb reg joining the pool. Awesome..What VPN do you use?

This is probably an unpopular opinion but I think Bodog should sever all ties with their affiliates to stop the under the table RB. In addition to these VPN regs, the bots are probably all getting rakeback which is increasing their profitability.

What? Are you okay? Stop tripping dawg lmao.

The disconnects on this site the past few days have been infuriating

From a business perspective, affiliates work as promoters of the company, so if they don't finish it, it's because they realize that the revenue they get is much higher than other alternatives. In my opinion, far more worrying would be the stables whose operation is sometimes unethical. The reality is that today almost no professional player can afford not to have a good agent

What's sometimes very strange is that a site doesn't allow players to retag their accounts (under certain conditions). By doing so, it puts its customers at a disadvantage; the Bovada network is one such case. It's just awful

+1000

They definitely are behind atleast some of whats going on if not all of it imo, hope im wrong but doubt it. Just a matter of time before they lose more markets and money on top of what they've already lost, be it on the sports betting front or poker or both. Read yesterday atleast one state in Oklahoma already has a couple of sports betting bills on the table for 2024 and im sure some others will as well if they already don't. They see the writing on the wall and know they are gonna lose a big piece of the US if not all of it altogether in the near future. Way too much shadiness going on here for way too long for them to not notice it if they're not in on it. Have cashed out the majority of my roll on here in chunks and am just keeping the minimum on for tournaments on Sundays, would suggest others consider doing the same to be safe. They're already screwing players over by whats going on and if a full tilt type incident happens or something similar pokerstars won't be coming to the rescue to get you your money down the road this time

Can only speak from personal experience, but 6max PLO games are definitely wack. Both mid and high stakes are an absolute grindfest against big stack colluders and short stack ratholers.

Game’s a ridiculous chore for regs, can’t imagine it’s anything close to “fun” for recs. As football season is over, I’m wrapping up my play for a while. If you thought games suck now, just wait until after Sunday.

Normally the divisional weekend - Superbowl weekend are my 3 best weekends. February has always been my best month on here for 17ish years . The games have been just horrendous the last 3 weekends. I can't imagine how fast the recs are getting slaughtered if I can barely put together two winnings sessions in a row.

The Chicken Little stuff is fun, but some obvious counter-arguments:

- these guys have 20+ years of running a huge, full-rake (not counting affiliate %) poker operation, that has to have made high eight/low nine figures annually. Probably a crapload more. And it's not like they've invested huge in software, quality customer service or even advertising laterly lol
- sports has been a consistent earner for them, but it's not like Ignition even bothered to keep offering sports. they don't exactly push the product, much less depend on it
- no licensed US sports book even takes crypto or offers a good dual sports/poker product. they've still got a good competitive offering
- most licensed US operators are so gun-shy of winning sports bettors they're limiting down a ton of break-even/losing regs. it's not easy to leave offshore and stay in action
- no opinion on security, but I'd expect to see a lot of guys posting grafs of their EV running true over last few years, then going to **** recently if in fact there's a huge uptick in collusion.
- if you think you're the lone legit player at a low-stakes NL six-max table of four-five bots, do the math on how much rake they'd be paying to exploit one player.

For what its worth my all-in EV line was relatively even for the last few years (since I have had this database) - sometimes under a lot, sometimes over a lot, but never anything too crazy. Around July last year it started to diverge massively and has never stopped diverging. Literally every single month since July I have run under EV. Its possible that this is variance, I plugged it into prime dope awhile ago it is possible just very unlikely.

This has been insanely out of hand for over a year now. It’s been clearly ridden with RTA, collusion and botters at 500-2k NL from what I’ve experienced.

I’m going to guesstimate the amount cheated using simple math. We are going to assume there are 20 nefarious accounts which would be the extreme low end. Even if they had very low WR, we can safely assume each account is profiting over 4k a month (that would be 20BI at 200NL and less than 10BI at just 500NL which is insanely low for running a bot or collusion). 4k*20accounts*12mo = 960k at the bare ****ing minimum.

THAT SIMPLE MATH MEANS THEY’VE CHEATED US OUT OF 7 FIGURES IN OVER A YEAR. WT ACTUAL ****.

Every bot farm and collusion ring I’ve seen at various sites has involved multiple dozens of accounts. 20 accounts is the absolute low end of how prevalent this is happening for a year+.

WHAT THE **** BONITION SECURITY. CAN WE GET A REP AND PROPER INVESTIGATION WITH REFUNDS OR SHOULD WE EXPOSE THIS TO POLK AND INGRAM?

One constructive thing Ignition/Bovada could do is give rakeback to every account over 18-24 months old. They'd be keeping rewards out of the hands of iffy new accounts and VPN Eurowhores, while hooking up all their loyal regs with a much-needed break.

Not hard to pay $4k a month in rake, either. Their unwillingness to cut any slack on rake, except via affiliates, costs the reg player pool many millions a month.

That is, if they cared.

These takes are hideously brain dead.

There clearly is a botting/collusion issue, it's not even close. Almost every high stakes reg has had their winrates more than halved in the past 12 months since the appearance of these players. The majority of which appear to be a decent chunk below ev.

There are def tables where i've seen 4 bot accounts at 1k and i bet there have been times with more. But I'll happily prop bet you that I can easily beat rake if i control 5 accounts at a table and you control the other one. These are bot accounts, it's not like time/attention span is an issue. If they are beating rake it doesn't matter to them if it's 5 of them and just 1 reg.

Just realised I may have interpreted your last point incorrectly. Did you mean they wouldn't be able to exploit the player and beat rake? or that Iggy would be ok with it?

Apologies If that was the case. If the former this is almost certainly incorrect, if the latter then 12 months ago I wouldn't have believed you but now I probably would.

Well .... It's been a good 17 years Bodog.

I choose you in 2006 when Party Poker pulled out of the US when the UIEGA passed. Mostly for your name, but also because I thought David Williams was cool. I played with Bodog Ari a bunch. I used to sit at the Evelyn Ng 200NL full ring table for years but never saw her play a hand. I still have the hats, chip set, and the bottle opener in the shape of the ace of spades you sent me. I had most of my roll on you during Black Friday which lessened the impact of that fateful day that forced me to change careers.

At this point, I refuse to give the cheaters any more money or the site that is allowing them keep doing this any more of my rake.

Good luck to all the ethical humans still playing!

Some fishy lines with seat 4 and 6 folding premium hands pre when their outs were dead

4 folded QQ56 to a single pfr from 6
6 folded KQQJ to a single raise in the bb when 4 folded AKQ9 pre to an UTG raise
Hand in question 4 floats the turn when AJ was dealt to 6

Ignition Hand #4595094509 TBL#31575465 OMAHA Pot Limit - 2024-02-09 21:21:12
Table Info: Version: 1, Type: Ignition, Stakes: $2.50-$5
Seat 1: Small Blind ($525.63 in chips)
Seat 2: Big Blind ($533.02 in chips)
Seat 3: UTG [ME] ($588.20 in chips)
Seat 4: UTG+1 ($1,114.60 in chips)
Seat 6: Dealer ($577.14 in chips)
Dealer : Set dealer [6]
Player Info: Seat1: P1-3f909014061f21a09bc05785ae40cee4, Seat2: P2-e764f90a9f6fd230eaf716cf6c9a6d7f, Seat4: P4-610bcc0147ab51b702bcd19f3d04ca44, Seat6: P6-8bd078b88be48822c0e1584333b46a1b
Small Blind : Small Blind $2.50
Big Blind : Big blind $5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Small Blind : Card dealt to a spot [Ts 3h 7s 9d]
Big Blind : Card dealt to a spot [6s 7h Qc 8s]
UTG [ME] : Card dealt to a spot [3d 5d 3c 5h]
UTG+1 : Card dealt to a spot [Td 7c 6h Qd]
Dealer : Card dealt to a spot [2h 6c Ah Jh]
UTG [ME] : Raises $17.50 to $17.50
UTG+1 : Calls $17.50
Dealer : Folds
Small Blind : Folds
Big Blind : Folds
*** FLOP *** [8d Jd Jc]
UTG [ME] : Bets $15.19
UTG+1 : Calls $15.19
*** TURN *** [8d Jd Jc] [As]
UTG [ME] : Bets $69.88
UTG+1 : Calls $69.88
*** RIVER *** [8d Jd Jc As] [3s]
UTG [ME] : Checks
UTG+1 : Bets $190
UTG [ME] : Folds (timeout)
UTG [ME] : Seat sit out
UTG+1 : Return uncalled portion of bet $190
UTG [ME] : Seat re-join
UTG+1 : Does not show [Td 7c 6h Qd] (One pair)
UTG+1 : Hand result $209.64
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($212.64)
Board [8d Jd Jc As 3s]
Seat+1: Small Blind Folded before the FLOP
Seat+2: Big Blind Folded before the FLOP
Seat+3: UTG Folded on the RIVER
Seat+4: UTG+1 $209.64 [Does not show]
Seat+6: Dealer Folded before the FLOP