President Joe Biden
Right now, we need VP Biden, we need him to step down and drop out so Bernie sanders can save this country from this global crisis just like FDR.
A thread to debate the efficacy of a Joe Biden Presidency in the midst of a global pandemic and impending Great Recession/Depression.
Where is Joe Biden? Can he beat Trump and is he even trying to? What would a Joe Biden Presidency look like in these times? Where is he and why isn't he leading?
Ill vote manchin if he has a republican running mate and is on no labels ticket
I'm conflicted what I'm going to do and still consider myself moderate right
The isolation policies of the right is my biggest hangup
If you have rightwing preferences it's up to you to decide how best your vote can matter.
If you live in a deep blue or deep red state it's fairly reasonably not to vote for Trump no matter what (if you dislike him), but rather for someone else you like more on the right.
If you live in a purple state with thin margins you have to decide if "lesser evil" is sufficient for you to vote Trump or not.
It's one thing to be disgusted by the republican party because they have too many people in you dislike and so on, but i don't follow how if you are rightwing in your political preference, you would vote for a leftwing president who would nominate leftwing people in his admin, as judges for all federal courts and so on.
Why don't you think voting third party in a way that signals you have rightwing preferences but dislike the current republi
Maybe, just maybe, he thinks that there is more a stake than simply a basket of policies.
Maybe, but that would entail believing judges and the military are not trustable to keep the constitutional order intact which i guess would mean there is a gigantic problem in the USA no matter who is president (and it's unclear why the armed forces and the judiciaries could be so compromised, yet no sign of that exists currently)
Maybe, but that would entail believing judges and the military are not trustable to keep the constitutional order intact which i guess would mean there is a gigantic problem in the USA no matter who is president (and it's unclear why the armed forces and the judiciaries could be so compromised, yet no sign of that exists currently)
Why are you including the military?
It's one thing to be disgusted by the republican party because they have too many people in you dislike and so on, but i don't follow how if you are rightwing in your political preference, you would vote for a leftwing president who would nominate leftwing people in his admin, as judges for all federal courts and so on.
Why don't you think voting third party in a way that signals you have rightwing preferences but dislike the current republi
I don't think I'm right wing at all. I think right wingers would think I'm a left wingnut.
And, while we are on it, Biden isn't left wing at all.
I don't want to vote third party because we just can't allow this incompetent conman to be president again.
How can he threaten democracy (in actual, real , non democratic ways) if the militaries refuse to follow unconstitutional orders? afaik there has never been any autocratic who didn't have the militaries on his side, maybe i am limited but i don't see any actual physical way in which you can suspend elections or mass remove human rights from citizens if the militaries disagree and don't enforce your choices.
The worst autocratic decision in american history as per the above definition (mass violation of constitutional rights) was FDR internment of japanese-americans (by a very large margin), that could never have happened if the militaries had refused to enact it.
walk me through an anti-democratic (an actual one, not some poltiical outcome the left dislikes but which is technically legal under the current constitution, so completly democratic) scenario without military involvement please, maybe i am missing something.
Maybe i use words differently from others, for me the "destruction of democracy" must include unsactioned massive violations of the constitution, whatever the constitution allows to happen (ie doesn't explicitly forbids) no matter how bad it can be for someone, isn't antidemocratic.
I don't think I'm right wing at all. I think right wingers would think I'm a left wingnut.
And, while we are on it, Biden isn't left wing at all.
I don't want to vote third party because we just can't allow this incompetent conman to be president again.
Ok so walk me through why you didn't vote Obama in 2012 then, maybe i got something wrong.
Ok so walk me through why you didn't vote Obama in 2012 then, maybe i got something wrong.
I believed in what I thought were basic conservative principles back then. Mostly fiscal responsibility, but also against excessive government overreach and regulations. I also supported law enforcement (which I still do). I don't know, Admittedly it was as much anti-progressive mind think as anything.
Then Trump came around. I thought that there had to be something fundamentally broken with a party that believes such a horrible and incompetent human should represent us as the most powerful man on the planet. That made me re-think basically everything the right believes in, and I came to the conclusion that the basic premise of the right is to never move forward, never fix problems, and basically don't do anything about anything. Then throw in the post-trump thinking that if you can't come up with a valid argument on any position, just lie about it.
I believed in what I thought were basic conservative principles back then. Mostly fiscal responsibility, but also against excessive government overreach and regulations. I also supported law enforcement (which I still do). I don't know, Admittedly it was as much anti-progressive mind think as anything.
Then Trump came around. I thought that there had to be something fundamentally broken with a party that believes such a horrible and inc
Hmm ok so you are actually just a leftwing person today, on basic principles (role of government, taxation).
Maybe, but that would entail believing judges and the military are not trustable to keep the constitutional order intact which i guess would mean there is a gigantic problem in the USA no matter who is president (and it's unclear why the armed forces and the judiciaries could be so compromised, yet no sign of that exists currently)
No. It doesn't mean that at all. You can do tremendous harm by undermining faith in elections and by constantly forcing courts to act as the last line of defense, regardless of how the courts rule and regardless of whether you can convince the military to keep you in power in the moment.
This is a huge blind spot for you.
Hmm ok so you are actually just a leftwing person today, on basic principles (role of government, taxation).
I think the government has a place. No other entity can wield the big stick on things like unbridled capitalism. And, no other entity can tackle an issue like climate change, which imo is hugely important. There are just some things only the government can tackle.
I would certainly agree that big government is quite often overreaching, silly, and pretty wasteful. I've come to overlook a lot of that because I firmly believe we, as a society and country, should always strive to get better and move forward and I'm willing to accept the cost of that.
If that's leftwing, so be it.
No. It doesn't mean that at all. You can do tremendous harm by undermining faith in elections and by constantly forcing courts to act as the last line of defense, regardless of how the courts rule and regardless of whether you can convince the military to keep you in power in the moment.
This is a huge blind spot for you.
Like an immunitary system learning to beat pathogens, I rather think that a country institutionally becomes stronger if it defeats attempts to undermine it's core fundational pillars.
Italy (after WW2) had attempted coups and government sponsored terrorism, and foreign sponsored terrorism, and mafia terrorism to undermine the state, we survived and nothing of the sort is threatening us anymore right now for example.
You survived presidential assassinations! More than one...
I believed in what I thought were basic conservative principles back then. Mostly fiscal responsibility, but also against excessive government overreach and regulations. I also supported law enforcement (which I still do). I don't know, Admittedly it was as much anti-progressive mind think as anything.
Then Trump came around. I thought that there had to be something fundamentally broken with a party that believes such a horrible and inc
You're describing the GOP. The right is different and encompasses both political parties in the US
Like an immunitary system learning to beat pathogens, I rather think that a country institutionally becomes stronger if it defeats attempts to undermine it's core fundational pillars.
I think this is a completely ass backwards analogy and a terrible way of thinking about government. I would sooner analogize to a guy shooting a high powered rifle at a dam. You may be seduced into believing that each individual shot does minimal damage to the dam. But little by little, the dam weakens. If you fire enough shots, eventually the dam will fail. Rebuilding the dam is a fraught activity, and even if you can rebuild, that is cold comfort to the people who were harmed when the dam failed. That's why it is better to avoid firing rounds at the dam like it is some kind of game.
Treating allied countries badly, promising tariffs here and there, reducing legal immigration, exiting international treaties and organizations and so on
The US is the 2nd largest exporter of goods in the world, 1st in goods imported, 1st in services exported and 1st in services imported. I know we have a large population, but doing this much trade says a lot about how un-isolated we are.
Don't get me wrong I am against tariffs (and the one exception that I am not a fan, but am okay with is with China). I think we have to reduce legal immigration until we can get a handle on illegal immigration - once that occurs I think we can drastically increase legal immigration.
So it was Biden's choice to call the press conference
All we need is an angry senior citizen in the white house that throws temper tantrums if you insult him . Oh wait that kind of describes the other guy as well 😀
No. It doesn't mean that at all. You can do tremendous harm by undermining faith in elections and by constantly forcing courts to act as the last line of defense, regardless of how the courts rule and regardless of whether you can convince the military to keep you in power in the moment.
This is a huge blind spot for you.
I am curious does that apply to the DNC as well that is trying to use the courts to block RFK and the No Labels party from appearing on the presidential ballot . Would that not also be undermining the democratic system through the courts ?
So it was Biden's choice to call the press conference
All we need is an angry senior citizen in the white house that throws temper tantrums if you insult him . Oh wait that kind of describes the other guy as well 😀
I always give Lozen a hard time for his whataboutisms; need to give credit for his tongue-in-cheek reverse whataboutism here. 😀 And yeah, sadly this applies somewhat to both candidates - Trump more angry, Biden more senior.
I am curious does that apply to the DNC as well that is trying to use the courts to block RFK and the No Labels party from appearing on the presidential ballot . Would that not also be undermining the democratic system through the courts ?
No question it's a ****ed up system, and both parties are more than happy to keep it a closed club unless there's a third-party candidate that will help one party more than the other. Not sure if there's any legitimacy to the DNC's current complaints, but given the past history, I default to it being mostly self-interest. And of course both can be true.
That said, this isn't remotely comparable to the nonsense Trump and his sycophants have dragged the US through for the last several years. Seems like we're back to the usual whataboutisms. :(
Like an immunitary system learning to beat pathogens, I rather think that a country institutionally becomes stronger if it defeats attempts to undermine it's core fundational pillars.
Italy (after WW2) had attempted coups and government sponsored terrorism, and foreign sponsored terrorism, and mafia terrorism to undermine the state, we survived and nothing of the sort is threatening us anymore right now for example.
You survived presidential
Perhaps you find this odd, but some people have higher standards than 'well sure that's really terrible behaviour, but if it gets bad enough to threaten democracy, the courts and military will stop it, so it's all good'.
I believed in what I thought were basic conservative principles back then. Mostly fiscal responsibility, but also against excessive government overreach and regulations. I also supported law enforcement (which I still do). I don't know, Admittedly it was as much anti-progressive mind think as anything.
Then Trump came around. I thought that there had to be something fundamentally broken with a party that believes such a horrible and inc
I think Dubya/Cheney pushed you out on the ledge and Trump just finished the job.
It's one thing to be disgusted by the republican party because they have too many people in you dislike and so on, but i don't follow how if you are rightwing in your political preference, you would vote for a leftwing president who would nominate leftwing people in his admin, as judges for all federal courts and so on.
Why don't you think voting third party in a way that signals you have rightwing preferences but dislike the current republi
U know Center exist too .
It isn’t just right or left and the US has massive amount of centerish people while the majority of republicans isn’t centerish at all .
