Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
The US has definitely done some bad things. Nearly all of the terrible things it did in the last hundred years, including the things you mentioned, were not known to be happening by 99.999% of the American people. And of that tiny portion who knew about it, 99% of those had no power to stop it.
This is in no way similar to a country that elected as their leadership a party which was a branch of a terrorist organization, whose 'party platf
This pretty much explains this thread.
Incredible how we are okay with collectively punishing Gazans for what Hamas does but aghast at assigning any moral responsibility to informed citizens of a mostly functioning democracy.
When many USA citizens support their militaries carpet bombing civilians -> 99% had no power to stop it.
When many Gazans support Hamas -> Let them all die for all I care.
Incredible how we are okay with collectively punishing Gazans for what Hamas does but aghast at assigning any moral responsibility to informed citizens of a mostly functioning democracy.
Did you miss the part where we weren't informed? Did you know what the US was doing in Chile as it was happening? If so, then blame yourself I suppose. I didn't know and no one voted for the "overthrow Chile" party.
When many USA citizens support their militaries carpet bombing civilians -> 99% had no power to stop it.
When many Gazans support Hamas -> Kill them all for all I care.
I said 99% didn't even know about those things. Do you disagree?
Please show me the survey where a majority of Americans supported carpet bombing of anyone.
Did you miss the part where we weren't informed? Did you know what the US was doing in Chile as it was happening? If so, then blame yourself I suppose. I didn't know and no one voted for the "overthrow Chile" party.
I was a bit young at the time, but America's involvement in propping up Latin American dictatorships wasn't exactly an obscure fact known by 0.001% of the population. Iran-Contra was like one of the most watched things ever, ffs.
Also, what kind of an excuse is this? Americans are too dumb to understand the world around them, so it's not their fault when Reagan terrorizes other nations?
Let me remind you all that as we speak (type) Aizerbaijan is actively ethnically cleansing out its Christian minority, and Armenia states it believes Aizerbijan is preparing to militarily invade Armenia itself to intensify the pogrom. And the response of the world is a collective yawn.
It isn't obvious to me that most people have any first principle concern against "ethnic cleansing" or more generally human rights violations occurring thousands of miles away. And the concern in this case is mostly due to political salience, tribal/religious concerns, and geopolitics.
So given this general lack of first principle concern, most of the moral arguments dont seem very sincere to me.
Let me remind you all Aizerbaijan is actively ethnically cleansing out its Christian minority, and Armenia states it believes Aizerbijan is preparing to militarily invade Armenia itself to continue the pogrom. And the response of the world is a collective yawn.
It isn't obvious to me that most people have any first principle concern against "ethnic cleansing" or more generally human rights violations occurring thousands of miles away. A
You said Isreal doesn't get respect globally because it didn't commit enough mass slaughterings like Ghenkis Khan.
I was a bit young at the time, but America's involvement in propping up Latin American dictatorships wasn't exactly an obscure fact known by 0.001% of the population. Iran-Contra was like one of the most watched things ever, ffs.
Also, what kind of an excuse is this? Americans are too dumb to understand the world around them, so it's not their fault when Reagan terrorizes other nations?
Reagan lost 20 points of approval over Iran-contra, according to wiki
Domestically, the affair precipitated a drop in President Reagan's popularity. His approval ratings suffered "the largest single drop for any U.S. president in history", from 67% to 46% in November 1986, according to a New York Times/CBS News poll.[96] The "Teflon President", as Reagan was nicknamed by critics,[97] survived the affair, however, and his approval rating recovered.[98]
Note: This question is not meant for Victor, Pointless, or Trolly. I dont consider any of you serious people.
You should know by now that forums don't work like this. If you can't handle different views that's your problem alone and you can put people on ignore, but you can't and shouldn't try to silence other posters.
I was a bit young at the time, but America's involvement in propping up Latin American dictatorships wasn't exactly an obscure fact known by 0.001% of the population. Iran-Contra was like one of the most watched things ever, ffs.
Also, what kind of an excuse is this? Americans are too dumb to understand the world around them, so it's not their fault when Reagan terrorizes other nations?
Personally I am old enough to remember that the Iran-Contra thing was a scandal, because it was kept secret from the American people.
Did you think that reports of something a year or more after it happened made people retroactively know what was happening at the time? I don't think it makes anyone dumb that they didn't know a secret scheme that was going on. Somehow I don't think you're that stupid, and as usual this is a completely dishonest post of yours.
Personally I am old enough to remember that the Iran-Contra thing was a scandal, because it was kept secret from the American people.
The scandal was literally televised.
Just incredible stuff: starving Palestinians living under the thumb of terrorists are accountable for Hamas, but Americans are like dumb toddlers who aren't responsible for what their elected officials do.
The US has definitely done some bad things. Nearly all of the terrible things it did in the last hundred years, including the things you mentioned, were not known to be happening by 99.999% of the American people. And of that tiny portion who knew about it, 99% of those had no power to stop it.
This is in no way similar to a country that elected as their leadership a party which was a branch of a terrorist organization, whose 'party platf
If I knew you in real life, I would slap the **** out of you for taking this position in front of me
Because you are wrong that's why.
Easy to say you wouldn't shed a tear until you see little kids blown to pieces.
Someone will make him shed a tear
Let me remind you all that as we speak (type) Aizerbaijan is actively ethnically cleansing out its Christian minority, and Armenia states it believes Aizerbijan is preparing to militarily invade Armenia itself to intensify the pogrom. And the response of the world is a collective yawn.
It isn't obvious to me that most people have any first principle concern against "ethnic cleansing" or more generally human rights violations occurring tho
Someone should hurt you too. See how you like it.
There reallly isn’t anything wrong with hurting people who call for the massacres of Palestinian kids
You said Isreal doesn't get respect globally because it didn't commit enough mass slaughterings like Ghenkis Khan.
Dunyain is a joke
The scandal was literally televised.
Just incredible stuff: starving Palestinians living under the thumb of terrorists are accountable for Hamas, but Americans are like dumb toddlers who aren't responsible for what their elected officials do.
Do you think it was televised WHILE IT WAS HAPPENING? I can't believe you think this proves anything. It was on TV after the fact because it was a scandal, and the president lost a significant amount of popularity because of that.
Yes, I would be sad (but really more angry) that those kids' parents did two terrible things: voted terrorists into power, and had children in a state where terrorists routinely use children as human shields. There's very little worse than what those parents did, and they deserve full blame.
You said Isreal doesn't get respect globally because it didn't commit enough mass slaughterings like Ghenkis Khan.
I am not the one claiming Israel is being morally outrageous. You are.
I think Israel's behavior is mostly rationale given the circumstances, and in response to that post (that obviously included some hyperbole), it does seem that if Israel had acted more decisively at earlier points in history I think everyone (especially the common people living in Gaza) might be better off now.
Yes if Israel cares about Palestinians this wouldn’t happen
The US has definitely done some bad things. Nearly all of the terrible things it did in the last hundred years, including the things you mentioned, were not known to be happening by 99.999% of the American people. And of that tiny portion who knew about it, 99% of those had no power to stop it.
This is in no way similar to a country that elected as their leadership a party which was a branch of a terrorist organization, whose 'party platf
I want to preface this by saying that I like you Chill, and while I don't always agree with your views I don't always disagree either and I appreciate the perspective that you bring here.
But this post here has got to be one of the most ****ed up and misanthropic things that you've said here--and you've said a few.
I mean, literally, yes. The arms sales continued as the investigation went on.
I can't believe you think this proves anything. It was on TV after the fact because it was a scandal, and the president lost a significant amount of popularity because of that.
Reagan's popularity immediately bounced back and he became a Republican icon for a decade. W Bush, who was directly implicated in the scandal, went on to become president. It's fine you don't remember any of this but stop pretending no Americans were reading newspapers circa 1960-1990.
I'm sorry, the USA's horrific treatment of Latin America wasn't a big secret even at the time. Voters knew we were supporting violent dictators, they wholeheartedly approved of it.
I'm sorry, the USA's horrific treatment of Latin America wasn't a big secret even at the time. Voters knew we were supporting violent dictators, they wholeheartedly approved of it.
USA intervention in domestic latin american politics wasn't a secret. That the intervention was horrific is debatable. That siding with rightwing groups to decrease the chance of communism was bad or wrong, is debatable.
Since the USA stopped intervening we lost 2 countries to the worst evil in history already, so it's not so obvious that residents are better off with less american intervention.
USA intervention in domestic latin american politics wasn't a secret. That the intervention was horrific is debatable. That siding with rightwing groups to decrease the chance of communism was bad or wrong, is debatable.
Since the USA stopped intervening we lost 2 countries to the worst evil in history already, so it's not so obvious that residents are better off with less american intervention.
I'm not sure the US has stopped intervening in Venezuela fwiw.
What's the other country?
