Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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Spoiler
happy to be back. I was out of line yet again, and apologize. In the end I'm just a stupid, stoned man.
if you believe that the Western press is thorough and fair then well, I dont actually feel sorry for you. I envy you greatly.
Dude just about every day over here, this is the coverage we get (this is today):
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-rafah...
But you mean to tell me the CBC passes on a verified mass grave story? Why? They are reporting down to a single person or family where they can get the story.
I have alien invasion insurance to sell you if you believe that conspiracy.
Victor do I have this more or less right:
If Israel or the IDF post a video or photo: FAKE, AI, PROPAGANDA
If you find a random bunch of photos on twitter where no news editor or sources are part of any process. Photos which btw were definitely from another REAL story about the returned Gazan bodies (but not a mass grave).. and not a single soul can find your version of this story anywhere reputable, your reply is: THE WHOLE WESTERN MEDIA IS RIGGED
And if you find a random unverified photo on twitter that fits your narrative: THIS IS DEFINITELY REAL
When you read that, is that the thought process of a totally ok person? As in, you'd have an honest debate in academia with this, or you'd work for a news source like this?
Do you remember at what point it all just went completely sideways for your judgement process?
Dude just about every day over here, this is the coverage we get (this is today):
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-rafah...
But you mean to tell me the CBC passes on a verified mass grave story? Why? They are reporting down to a single person or family where they can get the story.
I have alien invasion insurance to sell you if you believe that
they definitely passed on this one.
like, you think the Western press is reporting on every single atrocity?
what even does verified mean in Gaza? theres no reporters or inspectors or peacekeeping force. in a few months or years this will be investigated and it will get a blurb in some UN document and it wont matter. or Israel will win and this will become another of the countless and nameless Tantura's that they have executed.
in the mean time we got the pictures and videos and the Arab outlets found it credible. they havent been wrong yet in this conflict. the West has been pretty shaky at best considering all the baby murder and rape lies they have laundered.
we'll have to find other areas to discuss. This one there's just too much daylight between us. You're a smart guy, I think that much is clear. But you're in too deep.
It's frustrating because we probably want 50% of the same things. I just fundamentally don't know how to talk to you.
Regarding Rafah: seems to me that Israel caved to USA pressure and will be moving civilians out before they launch an operation.
Regarding Rafah: seems to me that Israel caved to USA pressure and will be moving civilians out before they launch an operation.
I don't think there's any downside at all to giving the civilians three weeks to leave. It's essential. Hopefully they all relocate.
I think It's going to be a crazy March when they attack Rafah on Ramadan though. That's going to be....something.
Not something new there sadly. The Palestinians and their neighbors have routinely attacked Israel on Jewish holidays. Just par for the course sadly. Oct 7th was a Jewish holiday.
Preserve self, Gaza.
I don't think there's any downside at all to giving the civilians three weeks to leave. It's essential. Hopefully they all relocate.
I think It's going to be a crazy March when they attack Rafah on Ramadan though. That's going to be....something.
Not something new there sadly. The Palestinians and their neighbors have routinely attacked Israel on Jewish holidays. Just par for the course sadly. Oct 7th was a Jewish holiday.
The 1973 yom Kippur war was not only on Yom Kippur, it was also during Ramadan
https://ultimateclassicrock.com/roger-wa...
Bono pays tribute to the victims of oct 7
Roger waters goes nuts and says how dare you honor those dead jews
Standard
Seems like Biden is on a fool's errand with the UN compromise. Hoping it works, but almost no chance imo.
Optics for this last part will be beyond bad.
Israel should be providing, and handling, aid for north Gaza.
https://ultimateclassicrock.com/roger-wa...
Bono pays tribute to the victims of oct 7
Roger waters goes nuts and says how dare you honor those dead jews
Standard
The world has become completely twisted when you can't pay your respects to the dead of Oct 7th.
That's the problem here, it's that the side opposite the Israeli side has to fold itself into a moral pretzel. You have to do things like take down hostage posters, denounce anyone respecting the Oct 7th dead, and support "from the River to the Sea" methods from genocidal jihadists fighting a forever losing war.
There is a third option, but very very few people seem inclined to take it. I've met some who do, and they're always the most rational to talk with. They genuinely can denounce both sides.
I don't think there's any downside at all to giving the civilians three weeks to leave. It's essential. Hopefully they all relocate.
I think It's going to be a crazy March when they attack Rafah on Ramadan though. That's going to be....something.
Not something new there sadly. The Palestinians and their neighbors have routinely attacked Israel on Jewish holidays. Just par for the course sadly. Oct 7th was a Jewish holiday.
Kinda like when we bombed thousands of civilians on Christmas Day in Hanoi
Apparently in response to the American ceasefire effort, Israel is offering not to invade Rafah at all if all the hostages are released before Ramadan. I am pessimistic Hamas has the will or the capacity to accomplish this.
I will say if that actually happened most of the world would celebrate this as a win, but it would be a worst case scenario for the Palestinian people. A devastated city-state with incompetent Iran proxies (Hamas) still in place to ensure no real hope for the future.
That would have to be part of a peace deal involving Gaza completely demilitarizing and accepting Israel's right to exist. Given the realities of the current situation (hostages still in captivity, Hamas still in charge, Israeli soldiers getting sniped my militants, missiles still being fired at Israel) this is a VERY tall order.
In other news the Houthis just managed to sink a "British" ship and shot down a US drone. I will say that it is hard to imagine how disrupting global commerce is going to actually end up as a win for the Palestinian or Yemeni people.
I mean, last time I checked both these peoples were completely dependent on Western handouts for survival, and I am pretty sure if the American global order is truly disrupted, Palestinians and Yemenis will be first in line to starve to death. I dont see Russia, Iran and North Korea jumping in to fill the role.
That would have to be part of a peace deal involving Gaza completely demilitarizing and accepting Israel's right to exist. Given the realities of the current situation (hostages still in captivity, Hamas still in charge, Israeli soldiers getting sniped my militants, missiles still being fired at Israel) this is a VERY tall order.
I don't see why this is the case. It is a big step in getting Gaza to demilitarize and accepting Israel's right to exist by cutting out a lot of Hamas's legitimacy.
I don't see why this is the case. It is a big step in getting Gaza to demilitarize and accepting Israel's right to exist by cutting out a lot of Hamas's legitimacy.
Your vision of Israeli soldiers in Gaza working side by side with Hamas Jihadis to rebuild Gaza is kind of bizarre. I would say about as realistic as the US working alongside Al Quaida to rebuild Afghanistan circa sometime after 9/11.
I don't know where I suggested that. I also don't know what people think "occupation" means apparently.
If Israel were governing northern Gaza right now then Hamas would not be. If Hamas is the one responsible for governing then they will gaining support and recruiting which is pretty much the opposite of Israel's goal.
Seems like Biden is on a fool's errand with the UN compromise. Hoping it works, but almost no chance imo.
Optics for this last part will be beyond bad.
Israel should be providing, and handling, aid for north Gaza.
Hamas attacks Israel
Israel retaliates
And they should be handling aid?
Yes.
Hamas attacked Israel
Israel retaliated against Hamas
Israel should be handling aid for Gazans
Aside from it being their legal and moral obligation, it's also the pragmatic solution. By not governing Gaza they are allowing Hamas to govern Gaza, which will lead to further legitimacy for Hamas and recruitment opportunities.
noise.
Can you give me examples of where this happens during a war?
