Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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Obviously aid is getting in. There are millions of people that have been completely dependent on it for months (decades really). What is your understanding of the mechanics of the current aid situation where Israel is being deficient?
Saying Israel is blocking all outside sources of aid doesn't seem accurate. If it was, how are the 2 million people in Gaza surviving for months? I mean, I see pictures of Ukranian POWs who spent a couple m
Hamas tv, hamas twitter accounts, and pro hamas UN "experts" say aid isn't being distributed
Israel should have troops and infrastructure to administer aid in areas where they have cleared out Hamas military. If they do not do that, then Hamas will creep back in to administer aid which will increase their legitimacy and enable them to recruit. This is already happening.
"all outside sources of aid" is poorly worded on my part. I meant outside forces to administer it.
I get that part. Wars really suck. Hamas should definitely give back the hostages and stop stealing so much aid to ameliorate this.
I dont really have any clue what BGP is envisioning for how things should mechanically go. That is what I am trying to understand.
I dont understand it either. the lack of food and aid to the Gazans is not an accident or the result of carelessness. its fundamental to the operation. they have said so from day 1.
Israel should have troops and infrastructure to administer aid in areas where they have cleared out Hamas military. If they do not do that, then Hamas will creep back in to administer aid which will increase their legitimacy and enable them to recruit. This is already happening.
If it is actually already happening, then it's a very good way to identify hamas members isnt' it?
You basically want Israel to set up refugee camps in north gaza. You want israel running them right now
The world would go nuts
As others have pointed out, even the recent atrocious US forever war policies have included some differentiation between civilians and soldiers, combatants and non-combatants.
Because the militants bases were inside of hospitals and schools
Israel allows aid in. Obviously or everyone would be dead
I want aid in. And i want to make sure it doesn't go to Hamas of course
So yes i do hope people move back north and get aid rather than stay in rafah
Mets, Dunyain: I've stated repeatedly that Israel should not be occupying Gaza when rebuilding occurs and they do not want to anyways. I am talking specifically about this very important moment in time.
By not being the ones to administer aid, and blocking all outside sources of aid, by default it will be Hamas who takes this role. This is against Israel's interests.
You're acting like it was peaceful when Israel actually occupied Gaza
I get it, you don't care that Egypt builds a wall to keep them out, you only care when jews do it we get it
Egypt isn't evicting a million people from their homes, confining them in a "safe zone" and then bombing the safe zone.
Also, I've been careful to distinguish between the actions of Israel and Jews in general, many of whom a strong opponents of what's happening in Gaza right now. ofc you guys are going to continue to conflate Hamas with the people of Gaza and Muslims in general because that's what collective punishment requires.
Those offers were not for states. Israel wasn't withdrawing from Area C, therefore the occupation would continue. The WB would remain divided into 165 cantons, with checkpoints in between.
You don't decline a deal and then expect the other side to agree to go back to borders before the war
We will never be back to actual pre 1967 borders
If that's your condition for a state, then we agree it will not happen
Egypt isn't evicting a million people from their homes, confining them in a "safe zone" and then bombing the safe zone.
Also, I've been careful to distinguish between the actions of Israel and Jews in general, many of whom a strong opponents of what's happening in Gaza right now. ofc you guys are going to continue to conflate Hamas with the people of Gaza and Muslims in general because that's what collective punishment requires.
Ok sorry
Egypt is building walls to make sure gazans don't dare flee to safety
Israel is trying to oust the government that attacked them but they are the bad guys
Hamas refuses to release hostages but israel should just agree to a ceasefire
That's better for you?
As I said before, the irony is all the people cheering on Pax Americana failing are the same people saying the Palestinians have been getting no aid for the last 4 months. If/When Pax American really does fail, I think there is going to be a very rude awakening in places like Yemen and Gaza, when literally millions of people really will be faced with no food and water. I dont see China and Russia jumping in to fill the role.
What part about suggesting Israel has troops there suggests I think it was peaceful or will be peaceful? If it's so dangerous that Israel can't administer the aid themselves, then they probably didn't actually clear north Gaza like they claimed though. That should also be a good indicator of just how impossible completely getting rid of Hamas will be.
Israel will get far less negative press for administering the aid themselves than not doing it. And even if they got the negative press, they don't really care; it's a good tradeoff vs having Hamas do it themselves and recruiting in the meantime. If they really don't want the bad press then they either need to find a foreign nation to do it (unlikely) or ask the PA to do it. There's pretty much no worse option than having Hamas do it.
And israel doesn't bomb "safe zones" until rockets are fired from these "safe zones" making them no longer safe zones DUCY
As I said before, the irony is all the people cheering on Pax Americana failing are the same people saying the Palestinians have been getting no aid for the last 4 months. If/When Pax American really does fail, I think there is going to be a very rude awakening in places like Yemen and Gaza, when literally millions of people really will be faced with no food and water. I dont see China and Russia jumping in to fill the role.
Yep
All the **** the Houthis are doing is causing less aid into gaza.
Still easier to just blame Israel
As I said before, the irony is all the people cheering on Pax Americana failing are the same people saying the Palestinians have been getting no aid for the last 4 months. If/When Pax American really does fail, I think there is going to be a very rude awakening in places like Yemen and Gaza, when literally millions of people really will be faced with no food and water. I dont see China and Russia jumping in to fill the role.
Hasn't China been pretty big on checkbook diplomacy?
It is kind of a big logistical issue to completely care for millions of people thousands of miles away. Especially in places like Gaza and Yemen where there is nothing to gain, except some abstract appeal to humanity.
I am not sure China would have the capability or interest to undertake such a task.
"they are only reacting to Israel disproportionate reaction, and the mass killing of civilians"
-Reality in the UK
/
Though even that may not be quite right, in the sense that putting this latest wave of hatred down to rage at Israel’s conduct may be giving those wielding the spray can, or throwing the bricks, too much credit. An arresting fact about the latest numbers is that the biggest surge in anti-Jewish activity came immediately after the 7 October attacks, when Israelis were still reeling – still counting their dead and missing – and had scarcely responded at all. As the CST put it: “In the week following 7 October, CST recorded 416 anti-Jewish hate incidents, higher than any subsequent week. It indicates that it was celebration of Hamas’ attack, rather than anger towards Israel’s military response in Gaza, that prompted the unprecedented levels of antisemitism across the country.”
"they are only reacting to Israel disproportionate reaction, and the mass killing of civilians"
-Reality in the UK
/
Though even that may not be quite right, in the sense that putting this latest wave of hatred down to rage at Israel’s conduct may be giving those wielding the spray can, or throwing the bricks, too much credit. An arresting fact about the latest numbers is that
Many of these hate incidents are things like publicly posting horrible racist things of the same nature as calling refugees and migrants from Africa "garbage people".
