The costs of trans visibility

As a man that wouldn't cost me anything but I am pretty sure a ton of women hate the idea of cleaning their periods in an area where men strangers are around, just ask them.

Or having to share bathrooms with men who are often much messier and less interested in hygiene than them, especially young men. Just ask them.

I believe you, but I don't want to be around women cleaning up their periods, or other men doing gross things in the bathroom. I want my own bathroom, and that is what they all should have.

And by the way, do you think those women want to be cleaning up from their periods around someone who has XX chromosomes but looks completely like a man? Because that's what those laws are causing to happen.

I know that people in the lgbtq community are treated better in portland than at least 98% of cities in the US. I don’t think I would agree you’d be treated better if you came out as trans , even i.men Portland. I don’t think being treated as trans in Portland, while better than most places, is as great as you think it is. 😀

That can't happen to minors if we ban all "trans care" procedures to them, and I was focusing on schools.

For adults elsewhere it is obvious to me that every private place that has bathrooms should be allowed to decide without government intervention, it's not even a discussion for me.

Now for adults in public places with bathrooms, we can use external appearance perhaps, but any choice will end up creating problems for someone, unclear what the best solution can be

I might be treated worse in the poker room, but I would definitely be treated better in the indie music clubs. In the supermarkets or walking around the streets I imagine there wouldn't be much difference. I don't really go anywhere else.

Ooh, that's clever! Of course, I already addressed the fact that you were both on extreme ends of the matter and suggested some middle ground (although all I'd change in his post is "directly resulted" to "played a role in", and he could be correct with "directly resulted" anyway, I just don't have enough info to say it myself), but of course you're more interested in picking apart what he said. Seems to be a lot of that going around in some parts of society today - who wants to about kids being bullied and even dying? No time for that when there is the terrible scourge of the radical transgender activists taking things way too far! 🙄

Wow. A world where we discard the knowledge of teachers, doctors, and others for the will of the electorate. Hard pass, thanks. I'll take a world where we elect leaders to lead, and they hire people who are experts in the appropriate fields. Of course they have a role in oversight, as does the electorate over the politicians, but putting operational decisions in the hands of those who know nothing of the fields in question is a recipe for disaster.

Of course the scare quotes around "experts" are pretty indicative of where we're at these days. This bizarro world where every Tom, Dick, and Harry knows more than experts in the field because they're woke and were taught by woke professors and something something something is frightening. I keep hoping the pendulum will swing back, but I'm quite concerned it may not happen any time soon.

Yeah, that's the direction things are going, and it does make a lot of sense. All of our new school builds these days have at least some bathrooms like this.

Right, and that's why it's not ridiculous that it hasn't happened yet. It's not really much of a difference for new builds, but going back and retrofitting existing schools will add up to a lot of money in a hurry, in a system that never has enough money as it is. So it's going to take time, unfortunately.

I'm pretty sure you're wasting your time with this one. Not that it means you have to stop or anything, goodness knows I've spent a great deal of time on pointless arguments in this forum. :p

I can’t stop on the point of it being innate because it’s very important and confirmed true by a 100 years of research. If I did I would be lying by saying it’s not innate, disagreeing with
all major medical associations and every trans person I had ever known. I understand that not everyone is going to understand this but it must be pointed out. Not pointing it out is horrible on so many levels.

My positions are not on an extreme end but rather moderate positions. The positions being expressed from the right are extremists positions. My positions are just what any impartial person who thought about this issue and studied it at any length would think.

Discard? teachers doctors and other groups of "experts" very rarely agree among themselves. Yes i put the "scary quotes" to that word because it's possibly the most abused word currently, even more than "racism" .

In every topic where there isn't an overwhelming *worldwide* (among first world countries) consensus among experts, how can you claim that specific "experts" (ie random people with a degree, which nowadays almost simply mean random people) should in any way be better at making any decision, even in their own field?

And everytime you can't objectively rank the quality of an expert, every time there isn't a way to objectively measure how good someone is at something (which is basically always in social sciences), how do you decide whom to delegate power? you let them self select while giving them free reins? really? hard hard hard pass.

Now give me a field with objective success measurements, and i start to listen to people who have a lot more success than average and can agree to call them experts in their field. Like basketball coaching, or business.

So how do you filter for quality in fields where the "experts" themselves fight as hard as possible to avoid measurement , and where there is a huge variety of takes both within the USA and among first world countries, by experts?

Moreover how can you deny teachers in particular, in the USA in particular, are exceptionally biased toward the left politically?

I find the credentialist world more bizzarre than one where Tom and Harry are fed up with extremely biased people talking as if their political preferences deserved more validation because they have a piece of paper written by their political affiliates that says so, or where the employees want to tell the employer how to do their job.

Do you believe "non binariness" exists as an "innate" characteristic of individuals?

"100 years of research" roflmao.

Trans-ness when adult might be innate in some sense, when you develop your body and you structurally feels it's not what you think you are, that's either innate or anyway so deep a part of yourself we might very well treat it as innate (in the "immutable" sense).

But 100 years of research on "non-binariness", something that was invented very recently with no basis in reality? really?

Saying non binariness doesn't mean anything and so doesn't exist as a thing, is not extremism, it's the position 99.5%+ of the people agreed with 20 years ago.

And no amount of leftist funded "research" by leftist activists can change that.

you realize for 1000’s of years stretching into prehistory cultures had a third gender right? That by definition was “non binary”?

I realize that some people invented that completly unsubstantiated claim , and some people take loans to go and study from them, then they want their loans forfeited and are offended if someone disagree yes.

I wasn't on an extreme end of the matter - I was asking a clarifying question, which is not the same as making an empirical statement of fact.

Recorded history would disagree with you. sorry. Non-binary genders have been around since ancient times. And those people did not choose to be non binary .

Your statement is ok in a vacuum , yes.
And, no I can’t currently scientifically prove the cause of death. I think and believe something horrible happened here that I have reason to believe that I cannot confirm right now.

But either way instead of trying to disprove the story everytime bullying and violence against transgender people is brought up maybe you could mature as a person and show a little genuine sympathy for at least one of them.

Which cultures?

Did they have homosexuals in addition to the third gender?

If you want a good laugh, this is kind of the "state of the art" on the topic (at least it was in 2021), and please remember you are subsidizing these studies with your taxes if you pay federal taxes.

https://clouddancers.org/a-brief-history...

I think all of them. The greeks, ancient india, egypt, Israel, sumeria, the mayans, all of them. But they of course didn’t think of those things in the modern sense so each culture is much different than the others.

like no I don’t think that they had a clear cut gay/lesbian/ transgender separation that we do in the 21st century but there clearly is more than two genders in all those cultures.

What are we going to hear now, that eunuchs were such as an innate characteristic?

I'm not sure how questioning the reasoning of someone's conclusions demonstrates and absence of sympathy for an individual who took their own life, as these events are completely independent.

Realized afterwards I wasn't clear on one point - by "this one", I meant the poster.

Ah yes, just asking a question. My mistake, sorry.

Hasn't it been your argument that such a clear cut separation exists? (I.e. exists in reality not just 21st century society)

Yes, of course. I think that lgbt folks were often smooshed together in bizarre ways due to myths, religion, the patriarchy, etc but those portrayals of the smooshed together sexual and gender minorities, whether they were seen as “boy and girl” “ladyboys” “eunuchs” “ men destined by god to suck semen” , “female with mixed boy minds” or whatever flavor of lgbtq representation they had at the time represented the actual lgbtq groups just not in a correct way and not under the modern construction of race and gender.

It's definitely something that I'd like to learn more about, but I think it's interesting how you're citing past cultures to make your argument while simultaneously arguing that past cultures got it wrong.