Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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See, we know this isn't true, because after 10/7 when all the stream of "mangled and dead children" was Israeli, your attitude was to argue it was propaganda and we weren't being shown the truth, and it actually wasn't that bad. And you were extremely supportive of Hamas and dismissive of all the "dead and mangled children bodies". It is not like you were outraged at Hamas actions, then when Israel counter-responded you pivoted. You hav
It took Israel 3 weeks to attack. The told gaza exactly where they were going to attack
And antisemitism took off on college campuses immediately. Well before the response
It isn't about dead babies. It's about being anti Israel or anti Jew
See, we know this isn't true, because after 10/7 when all the stream of "mangled and dead children" was Israeli, your attitude was to argue it was propaganda and we weren't being shown the truth, and it actually wasn't that bad. And you were extremely supportive of Hamas and dismissive of all the "dead and mangled children bodies". It is not like you were outraged at Hamas actions, then when Israel counter-responded you pivoted. You hav
no, I was pretty horrified. but as it turned out a lot of what came out was lies. no beheaded or burned babies. in fact, according to Haaretz, only one baby was killed (and likely by Israeli fire too) and maybe a dozen under 18 (cant remember the exact total).
further, Israel revised the numbers down after they found the bodies of like 200 Resistance fighters mixed in with the dead Israelis. I think its pretty obv why they were mixed together and it wasnt a rape orgy.
I was pretty anti-Hamas, considering I am a Westoid and inculcated with propaganda. then I learned more and I will not disparage the resistance. If Hamas was even 10% as brutal as Israel then I would vehemently disparage them.
No, the UN has existed since 1945 and significant international conventions date from before and since that time. Israel's occupation of the West Bank has never been lawful, which is why it's never been recognised as Israeli territory and the Israelis have never formally annexed it. And even if they did, risking condemnation even from the US, they'd have the conundrum of whether to (a) maintain the second-class status of West Bank Arabs and overtly admit to running an apartheid regime, or (b) make the Arabs Israeli citizens, inflaming the right wing and the settler movement, as well as the PA, and diluting the Jewish majority in the 'Jewish state'. They can't do either of those things, so they're just stuck. Occasionally they suggest ethnically cleansing the Arabs and removing them to the Sinai desert, which is a bit mad.
At my buddies house. He’s a teacher. He says democrats are complicit in Palestinian genocide.
During Trump's 4 years, Israel and Israel's supporters were absolutely in love with Trump. The Israeli right ADORE him. More than any president in my lifetime without question. It was surreal, he was like a rockstar for Israelis. And with good reason, he was as pro Israel and pro Bibi as we'd seen. He helped Bibi advance his policies on isolating Gaza and the West Bank. He was as blatantly anti-Muslim as you'd see. He was the guy that caused the uproar with this whopper:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/06/world...
Trump INCREASED funding for Israel all the time. Remember? A lot of those bombs dropping on Gaza are Trump bombs:
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/trumps...
If/When (probably when) he wins, I think it's going to be interesting. Because yes, he's isolationist. But he does tow the hardcore religious vote very hard. And the mega Christians like to back Israel. So careful here being so sure he'll be good for Gaza. I sincerely doubt it. If nothing else he'll be far worse for 2 state.
right but Trump didnt help with genocide. I like the presidents that dont do genocide.
Turkey is an ally of the US and a member of NATO. Are we (and the rest of NATO) complicit in all the human rights abuses they have undertaken in the last 80 years, happening as we speak. Serious question.
Of all the alleged human rights abuses going on in the world, including many by US allies, how do your rationalize your singular interest in Israel/Palestine and indifference towards the rest?
For them yes, while instead all the genocides that didn't happen because of american intervention don't count.
It's the same all the times, from the climate "crisis" to anything else, it's always easy to blame any problem you cause and disregard all the far worse things you avoided (for ex if we never emitted CO2 life would be infinitely worse for everyone on the planet, but they don't count this).
Bad faith enemies of the west always do this, they have to do this.
The west accomplished more for humanity than all other human groups in human history combined by a very large margin.
We are the best people who ever lived, or their descendants, by any objective account.
So the only way anyone could criticize us, instead of bending the knee to the best group of human being that ever lived, is to deny everything we accomplished and still accomplish
no, I was pretty horrified. but as it turned out a lot of what came out was lies. no beheaded or burned babies. in fact, according to Haaretz, only one baby was killed (and likely by Israeli fire too) and maybe a dozen under 18 (cant remember the exact total).
further, Israel revised the numbers down after they found the bodies of like 200 Resistance fighters mixed in with the dead Israelis. I think its pretty obv why they were mixed to
I kind of get the Overton window shift when arguing with kel but everything I see from verbatim, directly from the horse's mouth and actions that have been 100% verified and not just speculation would give me the rock solid assumption that if Hamas had 10% of the west's military arsenal, they'd send the world directly back into the dark ages with their current mindset. Now to what degree that hatred is warranted, i think, is worthy of discussing.
I kind of get the Overton window shift when arguing with kel but everything I see from verbatim, directly from the horse's mouth and actions that have been 100% verified and not just speculation would give me the rock solid assumption that if Hamas had 10% of the west's military arsenal, they'd send the world directly back into the dark ages with their current mindset. Now to what degree that hatred is warranted, i think, is worthy of disc
Palestinians are more than they were in 1900 only because of western invented/discovered and developed antibiotics, plumbing, electricity.
They, like every other human group on this planet, literally owe their very existence in large part to us.
That's how much their hatred is justified.
I kind of get the Overton window shift when arguing with kel but everything I see from verbatim, directly from the horse's mouth and actions that have been 100% verified and not just speculation would give me the rock solid assumption that if Hamas had 10% of the west's military arsenal, they'd send the world directly back into the dark ages with their current mindset. Now to what degree that hatred is warranted, i think, is worthy of disc
any country would do that if they were threatened. Israel has the Samson option. USA and Russia and all the others have the whole mutually assured destruction.
and it goes with the whole idea that rafiki likes to espouse about Hamas and Palestinians hating life and not caring if they die and wanting to die to become martyrs. all I see on twitter is Palestinians begging to stay alive.
No, the UN has existed since 1945 and significant international conventions date from before and since that time. Israel's occupation of the West Bank has never been lawful, which is why it's never been recognised as Israeli territory and the Israelis have never formally annexed it. And even if they did, risking condemnation even from the US, they'd have the conundrum of whether to (a) maintain the second-class status of West Bank Arabs and
It was nobody's land. British let it go. 1949 armistice agreement said borders will be decided by wars and treaties
Jordan annexed the West Bank in 1950
Israeli annexed East Jerusalem in 1967
Jordan withdrew from the West Bank in 1967
Egypt withdrew from gaza in 1973
Jordan relinquished its claim to the west Bank in 1988
There was no palestine run by the Palestinians so Israel didn't take their land
It was nobody's land. British let it go. 1949 armistice agreement said borders will be decided by wars and treaties
Jordan annexed the West Bank in 1950
Israeli annexed East Jerusalem in 1967
Jordan withdrew from the West Bank in 1967
Egypt withdrew from gaza in 1973
Jordan relinquished its claim to the west Bank in 1988
There was no palestine run by the Palestinians so Israel didn't take their land
Nakba denial is in the same realm as holocaust denial.
Progress on 6 week ceasefire looks good. I expect it to start right before ramadan
It was nobody's land. British let it go. 1949 armistice agreement said borders will be decided by wars and treaties
Jordan annexed the West Bank in 1950
Israeli annexed East Jerusalem in 1967
Jordan withdrew from the West Bank in 1967
Egypt withdrew from gaza in 1973
Jordan relinquished its claim to the west Bank in 1988
There was no palestine run by the Palestinians so Israel didn't take their land
And nobody lived there, it was completely empty! 🙄
All I've been told is that the "genocide" and war against Hamas started way before Oct 7th. So which one is it?
Trump built up the arsenal that is being used today in this war. Hard to argue he's not prepared Israel for this with his policies.
It was nobody's land. British let it go. 1949 armistice agreement said borders will be decided by wars and treaties
Jordan annexed the West Bank in 1950
Israeli annexed East Jerusalem in 1967
Jordan withdrew from the West Bank in 1967
Egypt withdrew from gaza in 1973
Jordan relinquished its claim to the west Bank in 1988
There was no palestine run by the Palestinians so Israel didn't take their land
I watched zone of interest last month and I wondered how humans can completely dehumanize others not like them and follow a narrative and I see you as being one of them that could.
I watched zone of interest last month and I wondered how humans can completely dehumanize others not like them and follow a narrative and I see you as being one of them that could.
Myrna every single other case of "this", whatever you want to call "this", was sorted out. Pick an empire in the world that broke up and the various lands distributed and refugees rehomed. Israel is not magically unique in how things came to be.
What's unique to Israel is trying to undo what came to be. That's it. That's the whole thing.
I watched zone of interest last month and I wondered how humans can completely dehumanize others not like them and follow a narrative and I see you as being one of them that could.
I'm not saying i agree with how Israel has handled it. It's one thing to claim the land, but to not treat the people who are il on the land fairly is not okay. So I'm not dehumanizing them at all, and the issues in Judea and Samaria need to get better. No argument
Gaza is a separate issue. If hamas didn't come into power i really think both Israel and egypt would not still have a blockade
Myrna every single other case of "this", whatever you want to call "this", was sorted out. Pick an empire in the world that broke up and the various lands distributed and refugees rehomed. Israel is not magically unique in how things came to be.
What's unique to Israel is trying to undo what came to be. That's it. That's the whole thing.
this guy is saying "Israel did not take their land" when there are thousands of documented cases of settlers going into homes and making it their own , backed by the Israeli govt at the very ****ing least .
makes me sad and agry
this guy is saying "Israel did not take their land" when there are thousands of documented cases of settlers going into homes and making it their own , backed by the Israeli govt at the very ****ing least .
makes me sad and agry
Ok but the "conflict" isn't being fuelled by that. Again that would be solved pretty quickly if the core issues were solved.
Can someone explain to me how stealing toys and stealing lingerie is necessary for Israel to defend itself. Also, as to the lingerie, so like are they just gonna wear it and have sex knowing full well the previous owner was murdered by Israel? It's real weird to me.
Rumor that pa is go by too resign
