The costs of trans visibility
Yesterday, Dylan Mulvaney broke her silence: https://www.tiktok.com/@dylanmulvaney/vi....
For context, this is a trans influencer who built a 10 million strong following on TikTok. She took a brand deal with budweiser to post an ad on an instagram, and the anti-trans right went absolutely ballistic, calling for a boycott, condemning the company, and to some perhaps unknowable degree it influenced that Budweiser sales dropped by a 1/4 and
. Dylan speaks more personally about the effect of the hatred on her.
What strikes me about this story is that it is just about visibility. This isn't inclusion in sports or gender-affirming care for minors, it was just that a trans person was visible. This wasn't even visibility in a TV commerical that a poor right-winger is forced to see, it was an ad on her own instagram page. We're all in our own social media algorithm influenced bubbles, but from my vantage point it really has seemed that in the last year or so things have just gotten worse for trans people and the backlash to even minor visibility is growing.
We need to do better.
Now that I actually have time to read through this carefully and make a serious reply instead of just quick remarks, let's go back to where my question came from:
Do you have any evidence of transgender people sexually assaulting anyone in a restroom?
i never said transgender people
but there's a very long list of sexual predators taking advantage of the "i'm trans" bathroom loophole, which is the entire reason for these laws
Several examples have been offered up in this thread of cases that belong on this very long list. One of them is actually of a non-trans person who pretended to be in order to end up in the women's prison where he could sexually assault women. One, based what's posted in this thread since I can't access the article, is of a non-trans male who may have worn a skirt and did go into a girl's bathroom, but there's nothing mentioned about him pretending to have been trans in order to get into that bathroom.
All of the others seem to be of actual trans people. Maybe there is truly a long history of cis men pretending to be trans to gain access to a women's bathroom (even though there wasn't a law against going in to begin with?), and maybe there isn't just a list out there for you to point to, but I'm suspicious that this is instead a pretty rare event.
The disadvantage is opening up a loophole that significantly increases the risk that bad actors will sexually abuse women and girls. I believe any fair-minded person should accept that it's best to keep the traditional sex-segregation.
Are there not places that have passed laws to protect the rights of trans people to use the bathrooms of their choice? Is there data from these places showing an increase in sexual assaults in these bathrooms? I'm guessing the data does not show that, but I'm not spending the time to look that up now. It would be interesting for someone to do.
gangsta, again, you guys keep on harping on red herrings
nobody is arguing that trans need to be kept out of bathrooms to save our children
people are arguing as jack puts quite well, that the laws are to prevent sexual predators from exploiting the removal of segregation by sex in locker rooms and bathrooms
it's extremely obvious you only look at this through the lens of victimhood by your responses
gangsta, again, you guys keep on harping on red herrings
nobody is arguing that trans need to be kept out of bathrooms to save our children
people are arguing as jack puts quite well, that the laws are to prevent sexual predators from exploiting the removal of segregation by sex in locker rooms and bathrooms
I honestly have no idea how you can read my post and don't think that I already understand that this is the argument. What hasn't been shown, though, is that there is some real problem of sexual predators taking advantage of laws allowing trans women into women's bathrooms in order to commit their crimes. Most examples that were posted in this thread turned out to be of actual trans women.
It's not just rape. Just going into a woman's changeroom as a man for sexual gratification (voyeurism) is also a crime and would be highly traumatic to many women.
Also who's talking about limiting access to bathrooms? Bathrooms and changerooms have always been segregated into male/ female, the change people are arguing for is to open women's spaces up to men who claim trans identity. The advantage of this change is that you will save genuin
Your response does not comport with my personal experience. My town just built a new swimming complex, I swim at the high school indoor pool and I belong to the local YMCA. All of these places have traditional m/f locker rooms but each have 6 or more family changing rooms as well (hs only has one). None of the family changing rooms have showers, afaik.
As a guy, we have a bigger issue with fathers that bring their daughters into the make locker room to use the showers or because they don't want to leave their kids alone.
but it has been shown that sexual predators have been infiltrating women's bathrooms and locker rooms due to the new inclusivity pushes
again, nobody is saying that trans are doing it for voyeuristic bathroom access, they are saying scumbags will
rip, i'll miss you luciom
Luciom has been temp banned for one week for equating transgender with mental illness. The post has been deleted
Are there not places that have passed laws to protect the rights of trans people to use the bathrooms of their choice? Is there data from these places showing an increase in sexual assaults in these bathrooms? I'm guessing the data does not show that, but I'm not spending the time to look that up now. It would be interesting for someone to do.
I'm not concerned about just sexual assault, a man entering a woman's changeroom for sexual gratification is also wrong and should be illegal. If the cost of banning this is subjecting genuine Trans people to a minor inconvenience of using a family changeroom or the male changeroom, I'm fine with that.
Your response does not comport with my personal experience. My town just built a new swimming complex, I swim at the high school indoor pool and I belong to the local YMCA. All of these places have traditional m/f locker rooms but each have 6 or more family changing rooms as well (hs only has one). None of the family changing rooms have showers, afaik.
As a guy, we have a bigger issue with fathers that bring their daughters into the mak
What's the issue with fathers bringing daughters into a male changeroom? It's not done for sexual gratification and I would imagine it's usually during family swimming slots where there are plenty of young people around at the time. Also it's highly unlikely that perverts would try anything when the father is there, for obvious reasons.
I have a five year old daughter and I'm not saying I would be 100% comfortable taking her to a men's changeroom, but I would be a lot less comfortable with my wife taking her to a women's changeroom knowing that there could be a trans-identified male pervert there.
but it has been shown that sexual predators have been infiltrating women's bathrooms and locker rooms due to the new inclusivity pushes
Has it been shown? The only example that was posted in this thread was of one guy pretending to be trans to get into a women's prison. And maybe there was one guy in a skirt. I have not seen a single other example yet.
What's the issue with fathers bringing daughters into a male changeroom? It's not done for sexual gratification and I would imagine it's usually during family swimming slots where there are plenty of young people around at the time. Also it's highly unlikely that perverts would try anything when the father is there, for obvious reasons.
I have a five year old daughter and I'm not saying I would be 100% comfortable taking her to a men's chang
You seriously don't think there is more chance there will be a male pervert in the men's changing room than in the women's? That's nuts.
We haven't had any transgender issues in the male changing rooms and I know of none in the female changing rooms. We have an age limit on kids in opposite sex dressing rooms (and a family dressing room) that is routinely disregarded by certain fathers, hence, it's a bigger issue.
You seriously don't think there is more chance there will be a male pervert in the men's changing room than in the women's? That's nuts.
Yeah. The chances of encountering a pedophile in a men's changing room almost certainly are much, much higher than your chances on encountering a pedophile in a women's changing room.
You seriously don't think there is more chance there will be a male pervert in the men's changing room than in the women's? That's nuts.
It's not about which one is more likely, it's about which one is more dangerous. I'm pretty sure a male pervert in a male change room isn't going to do anything because of the risk of physical retaliation by me and the other dads. Whereas I'd be more concerned about a fully grown male in a female changeroom.
Also a male pervert in a female space is 100% there for a perverted reason and can also be 100% prevented by enforcing a simple rule of sex segregation. A male pervert in a male space might be there just to take a piss and it can't really be banned, so we just have to be aware of the risk and manage it (which parents do by teaching their sons to be wary of creepy men hanging around bathrooms - now it seems like we're teaching our daughters that if they see a creepy man in their changeroom it's okay because he's trans? to me that's messed up).
Again, I'm not saying all trans people are perverts, I'm saying trans people should accept that opening up female spaces to males creates an unacceptable risk, and they should accept using the changerooms and bathrooms of their birth gender for the greater benefit of everyone.
We haven't had any transgender issues in the male changing rooms and I know of none in the female changing rooms. We have an age limit on kids in opposite sex dressing rooms (and a family dressing room) that is routinely disregarded by certain fathers, hence, it's a bigger issue.
Rules are rules and should usually be followed. But I still don't see an issue - unless these girls are 16 or something.
I suspect that the chances of a child actually being assaulted are much higher in a men's changing room than a women's changing room.
Is there an actual problem with transgender people assaulting children in women's changing rooms, or is this yet another right-wing fever dream?
Just to clarify a term for me, is the term changing room the same thing as what I have always heard referred to a a locker room? And since I havent been in a civilian one in decades, are they generally still large open rooms with benches with clothes lockers with communal type shower areas at one end or have they evolved into much more private areas? So if a guy brings his daughter into a changing room is she seeing a bunch of naked adult men or not really?
I suspect that the chances of a child actually being assaulted are much higher in a men's changing room than a women's changing room.
Is there an actual problem with transgender people assaulting children in women's changing rooms, or is this yet another right-wing fever dream?
See I can give way on the washroom argument as you have cubicles so you have some sort of privacy but when it comes to locker rooms and showers
What do you say to the biological women that feels uncomfortable or threatened by having a Trans individual in that space ?
I suspect that the chances of a child actually being assaulted are much higher in a men's changing room than a women's changing room.
Is there an actual problem with transgender people assaulting children in women's changing rooms, or is this yet another right-wing fever dream?
It's not just assault that is the issue. A male being in a female space for sexual purposes is wrong and should be prohibited, even if he doesn't touch anyone. There is absolutely a segment of the population claiming a trans identity that are doing it to gain access to women's spaces for sexual gratification. Whether it is 50% or .5% doesn't matter to me. If it can be easily prevented by a simple measure that is at most a minor inconvenience to genuine trans people, then I'm in favour of that.
Because some people are claiming an absolute world wide rule about separate bathrooms and changing rooms for the sexes. I experience people voluntarily and routinely not following that rule for convenience or using facilities. The world has not ended nor have rape cases sky rocketed as rickroll and luciom claim.
It's not just assault that is the issue. A male being in a female space for sexual purposes is wrong and should be prohibited, even if he doesn't touch anyone. There is absolutely a segment of the population claiming a trans identity that are doing it to gain access to women's spaces for sexual gratification. Whether it is 50% or .5% doesn't matter to me. If it can be easily prevented by a simple measure that is at most a minor inconvenienc
I was focusing on assault because you mentioned danger. I guess that I assumed that you meant physical danger.
Just to clarify a term for me, is the term changing room the same thing as what I have always heard referred to a a locker room? And since I havent been in a civilian one in decades, are they generally still large open rooms with benches with clothes lockers with communal type shower areas at one end or have they evolved into much more private areas? So if a guy brings his daughter into a changing room is she seeing a bunch of naked adult
I use locker room and changeroom or changing room synonymously. I've definitely been in ones with alot of naked guys walking around that I wouldn't feel too comfortable bringing my daughter into. But I guess I'd be more okay with it if it was during a time when it was mostly kids there with their parents.
Just to clarify a term for me, is the term changing room the same thing as what I have always heard referred to a a locker room? And since I havent been in a civilian one in decades, are they generally still large open rooms with benches with clothes lockers with communal type shower areas at one end or have they evolved into much more private areas? So if a guy brings his daughter into a changing room is she seeing a bunch of naked adult
In my described places she is seeing a bunch of naked adult men in the changing area. Most of the new facilities have privacy cubicles in the showers and toilets. The new facility has two privacy stalls for changing plus a normal open locker area.
