The costs of trans visibility
Yesterday, Dylan Mulvaney broke her silence: https://www.tiktok.com/@dylanmulvaney/vi....
For context, this is a trans influencer who built a 10 million strong following on TikTok. She took a brand deal with budweiser to post an ad on an instagram, and the anti-trans right went absolutely ballistic, calling for a boycott, condemning the company, and to some perhaps unknowable degree it influenced that Budweiser sales dropped by a 1/4 and
. Dylan speaks more personally about the effect of the hatred on her.
What strikes me about this story is that it is just about visibility. This isn't inclusion in sports or gender-affirming care for minors, it was just that a trans person was visible. This wasn't even visibility in a TV commerical that a poor right-winger is forced to see, it was an ad on her own instagram page. We're all in our own social media algorithm influenced bubbles, but from my vantage point it really has seemed that in the last year or so things have just gotten worse for trans people and the backlash to even minor visibility is growing.
We need to do better.
I wasn't there so I don't know for sure what happened, but we're generally supposed to trust women when they say they have been violated right? She said Lia was watching them, so I assume she was watching them unless told otherwise.
Also remember, she wasn't told in lb advance about this. Actually my understanding from the article is that she was not on the same team as Lia. Seems odd that opposing teams would use the same changing room, b
I dunno if we are supposed to take one persons word for something that happened in a room full of people with no corroboration. If I've missed where this is a common occurrence with many people speaking out on it then feel free to correct me. But one person convincing themselves something happened that didn't could be a perception issue. Or just bigotry.
And yeah, if your story happened in a locker room full of men, most people would be unhappy. I don't want a random dick 6 inches from my face as much as anyone else. In the 20 years that I used locker and changing rooms that also never happened once. Most people don't want to see everyone naked and dont want others to see them naked (at least in American culture).
But your story is just made up in your head. If we make up the least charitable details to every occurrence in our mind then, shockingly, it will seem really bad.
https://www.riverfronttimes.com/news/mis...
Teachers found guilty of “supporting social transition” would be placed in the same sex offender registration category as Tier 1 sex offenders, which is Missouri’s lowest level but includes possession of child porn or attempting a sexual act. And since no Missouri sex offender is permitted to be within 500 feet of a school or daycare, the bill would effectively end the teacher’s career.
The bill defines "social transition" as:
“The process by which an individual adopts the name, pronouns, and gender expression, such as clothing or haircuts, that match the individual's gender identity and not the gender assumed by the individual's sex at birth.”
That is extremely disturbing. The pure seething hatred of trans people gets so bad that basically any "conservative" principle is able to be immediately thrown to the wind to get at the trans people.
It's actually probably just trying to scare teachers from helping their students. It's a bill presented by on Trumper with no co signers so it probably just gave this guy his 15 seconds of fame and wont go any further.
On the other hand, it really hard to believe the "we only want to protect the children from sterility and permanent harm of drugs" claims when this type of legislation is proposed.
...
As others have pointed out, Lia has done nothing to change her appearance to look feminine except grow her hair out, which is normally covered when swimming. Have you seen photos of Lia at the swim meets? She looks about as feminine as I would look if I put on a woman's swimsuit.
What would you expect to have done while competitively swimming to look more feminine? Breast implant? Bottom surgery? Both of which would bring her swimming to a halt for months.
This pic is of Katie Ledecky a US swimmer widely regarded as the best woman swimmer in history. She is 6 feet tall. What should Lia do to look more like her?
What would you expect to have done while competitively swimming to look more feminine? Breast implant? Bottom surgery? Both of which would bring her swimming to a halt for months.
This pic is of Katie Ledecky a US swimmer widely regarded as the best woman swimmer in history. She is 6 feet tall. What should Lia do to look more like her?
I'm not an expert on that kind of thing, but I thought taking the female hormones for awhile started to feminize one's appearance. Certainly most trans women I have seen look more feminine than Lia, without having seen inside their clothing to know what kind of surgeries have been done.
I really can't judge how feminine this person looks from the photo given, as it only shows a small part of her body, and she is making an unusual expression. In a normal photo I easily found online she definitely appears very feminine.
Ledecky is an awesome athlete. I hope she goes to the Olympics again.
I'm not an expert on that kind of thing, but I thought taking the female hormones for awhile started to feminize one's appearance. Certainly most trans women I have seen look more feminine than Lia, without having seen inside their clothing to know what kind of surgeries have been done.]
Um, Lia Thomas was on HRT for years and met the then NCAA testing standards, undoubtably losing significant muscle strength: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world...
I don't know why you think how she looks should have anything to do with anything.
Um, Lia Thomas was on HRT for years and met the then NCAA testing standards, undoubtably losing significant muscle strength: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world...
I don't know why you think how she looks should have anything to do with anything.
The rules were changed because they weren't fair though. According to the new testing procedures, Lia Thomas would not have been eligible when she won her NCAA title.
Um, Lia Thomas was on HRT for years and met the then NCAA testing standards, undoubtably losing significant muscle strength: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world...
I don't know why you think how she looks should have anything to do with anything.
It doesn't matter how I think she looks; it matters that she looks like a man to the other swimmers.
When I was a kid , taking steroids to look like Arnold was deemed very bad and even dangerous but today taking hormones to look like Jennifer Lopez is encouraged .
How times changes.
Ah the good ol days, when low testosterone and testosterone replacement therapy was just taking steroids and aging...
The rules were changed because they weren't fair though. According to the new testing procedures, Lia Thomas would not have been eligible when she won her NCAA title.
Indeed. Which makes the continued obsession with her years after particularly weird. All I was asking is that chillrob get the basic details correct.
She's actually the second best woman swimmer in history. These are her short course records:
These are the times of the fastest woman in history.
Cute. Although interesting as you quote Lia’s records in men’s events it’s worth noting just how significantly her record in women’s events dropped due to the effects of HRT.
What Im saying is that I think it is two different issues. There is the issue of women seeing a penis and that makes them feel uncomfortable. But say Lia came back from spring break and had bottom surgery so no more male genitals. Would they then say they are comfortable with her being in the locker room? Has her gaze suddenly been transformed from a creepy guy to one of the girls because his junk was removed?
As I mention in another post,
The point is that you can't tell the difference from looking at a person if they are a legitimate trans person or a pervert (or both/ neither). And if you allow Transwomen in, there will be perverts who try to slip through that loophole. Why should women have to be subjected to the stress? Why open the loophole at all? If you keep locker rooms segregated by birth sex, the upside is protecting women and girls from perverts. The downside is that transwomen have to put up with a minor inconvenience of not using their preferred locker room. It's not even a close call for me.
It's not the same issue with a gay person in a men's locker room because the act of going into a male locker room by itself is not inappropriate. Whereas a man going into a female locker room is inherently inappropriate. Also, if a man did something inappropriate in a male locker room, he'd be at serious risk of getting the piss beaten out of him. Whereas a 6'4 man in a woman's locker room, not so much. Women are much more physically vulnerable than men, that's why it's worth having better protections for them.
It wouldn't be as much of an issue for transwomen in a female locker room if there was a way to 100% certify whether someone is truly trans or not, but given that there isn't, the only way is to use traditional biological sex as the criteria.
To be fair, you can't tell if anyone is a pervert by looking at them.
Ah the good ol days, when low testosterone and testosterone replacement therapy was just taking steroids and aging...
U don’t see the difference ?
It was never consider dangerous the one example u enumerated .
It was normal treatment .
Even today I doubt many doctors would say is a good idea to take steroids still today being a teenager .
And it still illegal for adults to take steroids and compete btw because the effects are very powerful .
That’s what hormones are , it ain’t aspirin .
Indeed. Which makes the continued obsession with her years after particularly weird. All I was asking is that chillrob get the basic details correct.
You should also get the details correct then too right? Lia Thomas had an unfair advantage due to her male biology. That's a detail you seem to have left out and I just wanted to correct you. It was disingenuous of you to leave that part out.
FYP. If a man dressed in women's clothing has an erection while inside a women's restroom, he's a pervert. I can tell just by looking.
The point is that you can't tell the difference from looking at a person if they are a legitimate trans person or a pervert (or both/ neither). And if you allow Transwomen in, there will be perverts who try to slip through that loophole. Why should women have to be subjected to the stress? Why open the loophole at all? If you keep locker rooms segregated by birth sex, the upside is protecting women and girls from perverts. The downside is t
By your logic, the changing rooms and dressing rooms are still going to be loaded with perverts doing perverted things. Trans men juiced to the gills on testosterone are going to be masturbating in corners of female locker rooms uncontrollably as they creep over sexy college singles in their area
There is literally no winning when your world view includes half the population being irredeemable perverts
By your logic, the changing rooms and dressing rooms are still going to be loaded with perverts doing perverted things. Trans men juiced to the gills on testosterone are going to be masturbating in corners uncontrollably as they creep over sexy college singles in their area
There is literally no winning when your world view includes half the population being irredeemable perverts
That's not what was said in the quoted post at all. Stop being disingenuous and obtuse.
And no transmen aren't as likely to be a pervert as transwomen because males are by far the more perverted of the two sexes.
We don't have to speak in hypotheticals, we have the stats. So don't bother making stuff up to support your argument that women don't deserve women's only spaces. Just say you think that women feeling uncomfortable and being raped because male perverts are in their restroom is less harmful than excluding transwomen from women's restroom. I disagree, I think excluding all males from female only spaces is a good thing and that the harm caused to transwomen is less than the harm that would be and is being caused by allowing them in.
How many rapes is an acceptable amount to make transwomen comfortable? My answer is zero. Go ahead and put your number down, I'll be waiting.
https://twitter.com/OliLondonTV/status/1...
Would this be acceptable in the past? Should it be acceptable now?
That's not what was said in the quoted post at all. Stop being disingenuous and obtuse.
And no transmen aren't as likely to be a pervert as transwomen because males are by far the more perverted of the two sexes.
We don't have to speak in hypotheticals, we have the stats. So don't bother making stuff up to support your argument that women don't deserve women's only spaces. Just say you think that women feeling uncomfortable and being raped
The only way I will prescribe to your wild conjecture is if you admit that males are "by far the more perverted of the two sexes" due to Testosterone.
Which was exactly the point I was making. A point you couldn't make without bringing up imagery of rape.
BTW, this appealing to extreme imagery yall love is a lowest common denominator tactic.
The only way I will prescribe to your wild conjecture is if you admit that males are "by far the more perverted of the two sexes" due to Testosterone.
Which was exactly the point I was making. A point you couldn't make without bringing up imagery of rape.
BTW, this appealing to extreme imagery yall love is a lowest common denominator tactic.
What wild conjecture do you think I was making? That males are by far the more perverted of the two sexes? That's wild conjecture to you? Seems like a basic fact to me, not wild conjecture.
I just want to understand what you're thinking before I answer you. Because I cannot honestly believe that any human is foolish enough to believe that statement is "wild conjecture" but if you believe that please let me know.
