The Box of Chocolates Thread (You never know what you're going to get!)

Sorry but I agree with Mukerjee on the topic

Colonialism was an absolute pox on humanity. I don't see how anyone can justify it.

It is, of course, possible to have an adult, nuanced take on history instead of childishly declaring which "side" you're on like it's a game of dodgeball.

Churchill was still on net a wonderful person, a positive element for humanity, even with the very very big mistake of the Indian genocide.

We just need to learn from the mistakes to do even better than him if time comes for that, no need to deny without him Europe (and so the world) would be a worse place right now

USA and Brazil among others wouldn't exist without it, for me every single instance of colonization is different. And many weren't bad at all on net.

Keep in mind the normality of all human history is the full genocide of previous occupants, that's not an historical oddity, the human group more capable of generating resources always genocide others to access more resources.

At least until land is very valuable. We can hope post industrial economie value foreign markets more than foreign land

There are very very few humans who resisted and overcame tyranny (and inspired others to) to the level of Winston Churchill. The select group of men he was a part of, who essentially saved humanity, are men the world owes a debt to we can probably never repay.

You guys do it your way. For me Winston is a great man (and the earth is round).

There are also very few humans who starved three million Indians.

Based on a firm foundation of historical scholarship, Vic's work revitalizes a thread!

I'm familiar with the conspiracy theory book that lead you and others to believe this.

Read or don't, I can't care Trolly

The actual evidence shows that Churchill believed, based on the information he had been getting, that there was no food supply shortage in Bengal, but a demand problem caused by local mismanagement of the distribution system.

This was largely the result of wartime supply constraints, with most of Bengal’s boats commandeered or disabled, and uneasy relations between the elected, Muslim-led, coalition government of Bengal and its largely Hindu grain merchants, notorious for hoarding and speculation. Churchill had resisted the 1935 constitution granting Indian provinces autonomy; but, by the 1940s, he regarded the food situation in Bengal as primarily a matter for its elected ministry rather than Whitehall. Within the War Cabinet itself, Churchill’s role was one of broad oversight, rather than detailed management, so the idea that he had much influence on actual relief aid to Bengal is far-fetched, especially at the height of the war.

1943 had begun as a year of normal harvest, leaving the Bengal ministry sanguine about food supplies and the Viceroy’s government in Delhi reluctant to intervene, using its reserve powers. Once the Viceroy did intervene, the famine was rapidly brought under control and petered out within months . And it was Churchill who replaced the lethargic Lord Linlithgow as viceroy with the efficient and politically sensitive Field Marshal Wavell.

Even Mukerjee never blames Churchill for actually causing the Bengal Famine, but for compounding it by refusing to allow shipments of grain from Australia and Canada, bound for Europe, to be diverted to Bengal. One has only to look at a map to see what a nonsense it would have been for Australian ships bound for Europe to come anywhere near the Bay of Bengal and run the gauntlet of Japanese submarines.

Like I said. 9/11 truthing, flat earth, moon landing, and this

Based

So that's what you did with your nuanced takes!... I was wondering.

I mean I guess some people must cheer for Drago when they rewatch Rocky. It must not be 0%.

You gonna answer any of the questions put to you or continue to engage in one line semi trolling?

Wat? Mussolini was a socialist allied with Nazis lol, can't get much worse than that except being actually a Nazi yourself.

Churchill ended up crushing Italy in northern Africa (my grandpa was artillery there) and in Greece , as he had to correctly.

Lol corpus just learned his place in the colonial hierarchy

Yeah he crushed quite a few other people from other countries as well, none of whom were nazis.

Marx was Jewish and Lenin (mother side) and Trotsky were jewish, it was easier to believe those conspiracies back then.

Then when people from Cambodians to Georgians to the Chinese to Cubans did exactly the same or worse, we understood Jews hadn't much to do with it after all.

But in the 30s? Pretty reasonable to think that for the USSR

I tend to point people to this graphic when they want to tear down Winston Churchill

Spoiler

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Anyone can try to tear a great man down. I mean Winston literally dedicated his life to making sure you'd have the freedom to do so (granted if you did it to his face you were going to hear about it). The Gestapo might have been a bit less tolerant of our posting I'd think.

Wow oops I mean um, okay...

Have to understand things in context Including the fact that some participants in the soviets weren't actually horrible people, while today anyway who exposes communism in any form is a moral monster with no excuses.

And btw Stalin did purge a ton of Jews (and it was one of the many reasons the USSR failed) from communist hierarchies, and went to great extents to assassinate Trotsky.

Even Stalin believed Jews were behind the first Russian revolution with ill intent.

As for Hitler, his stupidity costed him greatly. Hitler could have had the atom bomb before the USA if he hadn't purged Jews for example

by rafiki P

I tend to point people to this graphic when they want to tear down Winston Churchill

Spoiler

Show

Anyone can try to tear a great man down. I mean Winston literally dedicated his life to making sure you'd have the freedom to do so (granted if you did it to his face you were going to hear about it). The Gestapo might have been a bit less tolerant of our posting I'd think.

I'm Irish. So no, Winston certainly didn't dedicate his life to ensuring we had freedom and Gestapo are fertilizer the past 80 years and only exist in Indiana Jones films.

I didn't mean to turn you on with news of carnage

We're not talking about Stalin or the goosteppers but on Winston's nutty theories regarding Jews, which you seem to think was perfectly reasonable at the time, hence my "wow".