US Immigration Crisis
I didn’t see an immigration thread so I figured I would add one. This problem seems to be worsening everyday of the current admin. Hopefully some of our new elected officials can help with this. Mr. Luttrell is a great start
The kind of exercise that you're doing in the first two questions is a useful exercise and can be informative, but it's not actually some kind of recipe for coming up with a good solution in and of itself. There are rights and principles in the world which conflict and have limits. You're making an impossible premise which may demonstrate that it's not theoretically impossible for me to say "no this is too much", but it's an impossible si
if a society is very much split in the middle with regards to votes, as the USA is currently, even a smallish amount of people let in and granted the vote can mean victory for one side over the other..
I would actually allow a billion people in but the hell I would give them the vote before I am fairly convinced they will vote my side on average
I try not to follow modding much, but wasn't rickroll banned for criticizing the mods? That would have nothing to do with their political viewpoint other than demonstrating that they are personally thin skinned and power mad.
Rick roll suicided himself yes. very sad loss and I hope he can somehow come back
the forum rules are weird for trans issues, but for everything else it looks like this place is managed in a fairer way than most other places tbh
thats the thread i mostly had in mind. its like you cant mention things that should be obvious for some reason. but yeah, i guess i have to agree. i got banned back during the george floyd thing but in retrospect it was a tense time and i should have not continually poked the bear.
That doesn't show a lot of respect for democracy. I'm not a huge believer that we have a working democracy, but I support democracy in principle. I would even let prisoners vote even they they are mostly reactionaries or conservatives and agree with you a lot more than they agree with me.
eta: responding to
"I would actually allow a billion people in but the hell I would give them the vote before I am fairly convinced they will vote my side on average"
in case that's not clear
borders are necessary. so is protecting them. part of that is not letting anyone in at any time.
that's it. l see your viewpoint of wanting everyone on earth to prosper equally. unfortunately, earth is populated by humans, many who unfortunately suck. lines in the sand have to be drawn. if said lines are not enforced then chaos will follow.
i dont feel like youre trolling but i do feel like you have blinders on. im not trolling you either, ju
You have the viewpoint of 99% of Americans. It's not some new viewpoint that I have trouble imagining people have.
That doesn't show a lot of respect for democracy. I'm not a huge believer that we have a working democracy, but I support democracy in principle. I would even let prisoners vote even they they are mostly reactionaries or conservatives and agree with you a lot more than they agree with me.
eta: responding to
"I would actually allow a billion people in but the hell I would give them the vote before I am fairly convinced they will vote my sid
I don't have much respect for universal democracy while I can see democracy as the less bad option given a specific population with some shared values in a specific area.
but most people are horrible in general so it's not like getting more random human beings in the franchise would improve any already decent countries.
you need strong filters, and for the people who join to be measurably better than the median current resident.
people aren't all worth the same morally or otherwise and you can rank them, just take in the good ones and develop ways to get rid of the bad ones
I don't have much respect for universal democracy while I can see democracy as the less bad option given a specific population with some shared values in a specific area.
but most people are horrible in general so it's not like getting more random human beings in the franchise would improve any already decent countries.
you need strong filters, and for the people who join to be measurably better than the median current resident.
people aren't
I appreciate your honesty and I think you've more or less just accepted the logical conclusions of the position on immigration that you share with most people.
That doesn't show a lot of respect for democracy. I'm not a huge believer that we have a working democracy, but I support democracy in principle. I would even let prisoners vote even they they are mostly reactionaries or conservatives and agree with you a lot more than they agree with me.
Even if they were the deciding votes that closed the border?
borders are necessary. so is protecting them. part of that is not letting anyone in at any time.
that's it. l see your viewpoint of wanting everyone on earth to prosper equally. unfortunately, earth is populated by humans, many who unfortunately suck.
So lucky how it happened to work out that the non-sucky people are in the US and the sucky people live elsewhere. Phew!
So lucky how it happened to work out that the non-sucky people are in the US and the sucky people live elsewhere. Phew!
not what i was discussing. borders exist so people can protect their way of life from outsiders. and probably many other reasons. a world without borders is a great idea but mostly just idealistic masturbation.
fwiw, over the course of my life probably most of the truly good people ive met were not born here. i am not anti-immigration. i am anti-illegal immigration, specifically on the scale we are seeing now.
If there was a huge leap in technology and we populated a habitable planet, would you want to see its land divided by borders which prevented people from crossing without appropriate documentation?
If there was a huge leap in technology and we populated a habitable planet, would you want to see its land divided by borders which prevented people from crossing without appropriate documentation?
If we set up that place to be managed by different groups at the beginning obviously yes? perhaps with some "federal" institutions, but a lot of local autonomy.
If instead the mission to colonize is international then other rules will be adopted. But anyway i can foresee entrants from Earth (or other planets) will need authorization by the planetary government, it wouldn't be open border at all at some stage.
Why do you think people won't be jealous about local (however defined) property and rules and culture and won't allow unlimited entrants to come and change their home?
If there was a huge leap in technology and we populated a habitable planet, would you want to see its land divided by borders which prevented people from crossing without appropriate documentation?
do you want to live in a country where the women have to cover themselves when they leave the house? some people do, some don't. without borders neither group will be happy.
i am okay with borders, it's not something i think needs to go away.
look at this forum and the divide between people who mostly share the same core values. its insane to think that anytime in the near future people across the globe will be able to live in harmony. until that time borders are here to stay and who comes and goes needs to be recorded/approved etc.
I have lived in a part of a country where women wore headscarves as part of their culture (not law) , and I respected their values (the men also dressed modestly). Your post seems to be mainly driven by fear.
I have lived in a part of a country where women wore headscarves as part of their culture (not law) , and I respected their values (the men also dressed modestly). Your post seems to be mainly driven by fear.
America had special protections, and the scarf wearing people were a small percentage of total.
If enough people committed to scarf wearing come to your place and can vote they can force your daughter to wear on, do you see that? WHY RISK THAT is the main question.
Why? Just don't give the vote to people who don't share your core values. Why the hell would you risk them democratically deciding your values are **** and theirs should be the law?
You should minimize that risk given how important having your values codified in the law is for your quality of life.
Why do you want to give people power over you if it's not strictly necessary. Giving them the vote is giving power over you, your family and your stuff.
I dislike Muslim law but Marxism is even worse, let's keep both groups outside of the franchise if we can.
At the very least don't give any member of either group the vote if you aren't legally forced to.
And if you are change the law so you can avoid giving them the vote.
If there was a huge leap in technology and we populated a habitable planet, would you want to see its land divided by borders which prevented people from crossing without appropriate documentation?
Yes. I would be interested in hearing why someone would answer this question with a no.
If this new planet was as large as earth and could handle as many people as earth can I think the ideal number of countries is greater than 100 and possible more than 500. Then let all 500 countries compete for the new people coming to the planet. More options are better than less options for each individual.
Yes. I would be interested in hearing why someone would answer this question with a no.
Lol, seriously?
Some people love freedom.
Also going new places and seeing new things is awesome and stupid borders shouldn't be stopping people from being free. I really wish people didn't hate freedom so much.
Even if you get to travel across borders, you don't get freedom. Living in Portugal for a year would be cool, but I couldn't do it without being able to work and working there, even remote work (for more than a month), would be illegal. Why would I want that? And why would I be such a selfish freedom hater that I would deny someone from Portugal the chance to just go live in the USA?
America had special protections, and the scarf wearing people were a small percentage of total.
If enough people committed to scarf wearing come to your place and can vote they can force your daughter to wear on, do you see that? WHY RISK THAT is the main question.
Why? Just don't give the vote to people who don't share your core values. Why the hell would you risk them democratically deciding your values are **** and theirs should be the law
DEATH BY SCARF!
You're not really talking about scarves are you?
Sure, culture is important to people. But SCARF INVASION isn't going to happen in enough numbers to change the culture.
Yes. I would be interested in hearing why someone would answer this question with a no.
If this new planet was as large as earth and could handle as many people as earth can I think the ideal number of countries is greater than 100 and possible more than 500. Then let all 500 countries compete for the new people coming to the planet. More options are better than less options for each individual.
How would the people on this planet choose between countries if borders prevented them ?
Your suggestion of countries competing for people sounds very much like open borders. If borders are completely open then they effectively don't exist a far as people are concerned. So we agree?
How would the people on this planet choose between countries if borders prevented them ?
Your suggestion of countries competing for people sounds very much like open borders. If borders are completely open then they effectively don't exist a far as people are concerned. So we agree?
No I think you are missing the point. It would be open border if you are considered valuable (think engineers or whatever else the new colonies on the planet need), and closed doors if you aren't.
Like you know, as if people weren't all the same.
