The costs of trans visibility

The costs of trans visibility

Yesterday, Dylan Mulvaney broke her silence: https://www.tiktok.com/@dylanmulvaney/vi....

For context, this is a trans influencer who built a 10 million strong following on TikTok. She took a brand deal with budweiser to post an ad on an instagram, and the anti-trans right went absolutely ballistic, calling for a boycott, condemning the company, and to some perhaps unknowable degree it influenced that Budweiser sales dropped by a 1/4 and

. Dylan speaks more personally about the effect of the hatred on her.

What strikes me about this story is that it is just about visibility. This isn't inclusion in sports or gender-affirming care for minors, it was just that a trans person was visible. This wasn't even visibility in a TV commerical that a poor right-winger is forced to see, it was an ad on her own instagram page. We're all in our own social media algorithm influenced bubbles, but from my vantage point it really has seemed that in the last year or so things have just gotten worse for trans people and the backlash to even minor visibility is growing.

We need to do better.

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30 June 2023 at 04:48 PM
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by chillrob P

What is your reasoning for this?
The only logical reason I can think of would be wanting children to die.

Children will most likely be fine without a mask. Its a 3 year old coughing, sneezing, burping, vomiting, etc etc on randoms because they didn't have a mask on that is the kicker.

Kids are germ factories.

Luciom doesn't believe that saliva carries germs though. Or that masks could stop the transfer of germs by blocking moisture in the mouth. Or something like that, I dunno what goes on in that guys head. Maybe he sneezes in his whole families mouth every night


by Luciom P

2 homosexuals can't create life but nice try.

Adoption laws should be changed to allow single (and in general unmarried) individuals to adopt, that's another topic

the fate of the nuclear family - uniquely equipped to resist marxism or something - isn't about 'life creation,' but a structure. Or no?


I deleted the post by 5th street about going back in time irt gender dysphoria classification. It's not OK to post a "disclaimer" stating that not all transgender people are mentally ill, but lets do a thought experiment to a time when they were. And to clarify something: there is no issue with debating whether minors should be able to receive gender affirming treatments, who should make those decisions, etc. Same with sports participation, bathroom usage, etc.

But quit trying to work around the policy irt mental illness. As the policy acknowledges:

The following guidelines will be enforced on all threads and posts related to transgender topics. It is recognized that some people may have very strong beliefs concerning transgender persons that are diametrically opposed to these guidelines. Nonetheless, the following guidelines are in effect and posters who violate these guidelines will be subject to the same disciplinary procedures as other violators of forum rules and guidelines.
...
There will be some to whom these guidelines will be unacceptable and in conflict with their personal beliefs. And that's fine. There are many other places on the internet where like-minded people gather to share those beliefs with one another. If you can't post on transgender topics without including those beliefs, by all means leave here and go there.


Honestly enjoying everyone's contribution. bryce is wicked smart with his eccentricities, same with Lucium. It's all good

I want to read about why the nuclear family resists Marxism so good.


by Bobo Fett P

I thought we were talking about employees that you don't trust.


Um, no. Unionized teachers would be far more difficult to dismiss, but those in charge of curriculum decisions tend to be more managerial-type positions. That said, firing people with cause is difficult, so outright firing would be expensive, and it could get more expensive if your CEO (superintendent around here) doesn't want to go along with your plan of completely upending t

At will employment is fairly common in the american private sector but very rare in the public sector.

Public employees are very hard to fire in the USA like everywhere else.

Which btw is one of the reasons why we need private charter schools funded by the public, in which case it's very easy to fire


by Schlitz mmmm P

Honestly enjoying everyone's contribution. bryce is wicked smart with his eccentricities, same with Lucium. It's all good

I want to read about why the nuclear family resists Marxism so good.

It is one of the elements resisting collectivism in general, more than marxism in particular.

Collectivism substitutes the family with the state. What are supposed to be family responsibilities, being it taking care of your children or your elders, become state responsibilities.

So you become dependant of the state for more things, so you are a more docile state subject as your entire life is predicated upon the state delivering it's promises.

It's similar to the "ban private car, push public transport", under the cover of the climate or whatever, you just become more dependant on the state to go through your daily life.

"some" state is already indispensable according to everyone who isn't an anarchist. Collectivists want to make it indispensable for as many things as possible so there is no coming back from statist totalitarianism even if you try.


by Bobo Fett P

I said if you don't trust your experts you should get new ones, correct. How are you supposed to operate an education system where you don't trust your educators? Why do you have to keep the bad ones on your payroll?

I'm wondering now if you understand that a small number of those educators would typically be the ones who decide on curriculum.

The fallacy with "if you don't trust your experts get new ones" is that in actual fields of knowledge you don't need to trust the individual experts because you trust the system that trains and certifies them. The person who designed the bridge that you drive over, the pilot that flies your plane, the surgeon that does your operation, they all are the product of many years of accumulated experience in their fields and can be trusted implicitly.

This doesn't apply in fields like social work, psychotherapy, or education. These fields aren't built up on a rigorous scientific base and are susceptible to fads and trends. This makes them fertile grounds for hucksters, and (even worse) people with good intentions in the grips of poisonous ideologies.


by Jackontheturn P

The fallacy with "if you don't trust your experts get new ones" is that in actual fields of knowledge you don't need to trust the individual experts because you trust the system that trains and certifies them. The person who designed the bridge that you drive over, the pilot that flies your plane, the surgeon that does your operation, they all are the product of many years of accumulated experience in their fields and can be trusted implici

And the radical left is trying to "decolonize" the fields that work


by Luciom P

It is one of the elements resisting collectivism in general, more than marxism in particular.

Collectivism substitutes the family with the state. What are supposed to be family responsibilities, being it taking care of your children or your elders, become state responsibilities.

So you become dependant of the state for more things, so you are a more docile state subject as your entire life is predicated upon the state delivering it's promises

Marx wrote about the withering away of the state, not about making people dependent on it. But then you wouldn't know that because all you've read is anti-leftist propaganda pieces.


by Bobo Fett P

This makes me wonder if there's not a lot of projection going on here. Just because you have strong political biases that you can't operate separately from doesn't mean that everyone does. "don't actually trust leftists to be near our kids" - yikes! There's some serious paranoia.

What do you think of teachers who put BLM or LGBTQ+ flags in the classroom, would you agree with me those are radical leftists who shouldn't be near children, or even using the flag of marxist movements as proof would be paranoia?


by jalfrezi P

Marx wrote about the withering away of the state, not about making people dependent on it. But then you wouldn't know that because all you've read is anti-leftist propaganda pieces.

Lol you are answering a post about *collectivism* where i specifically say it's not about marxism per se.

It doesn't matter much what Marx hoped would happen after "the revolution". I am ok with using "state capitalism" if you prefer. Fact is when marxist ideas win, what happens is collectivism, not what Marx wanted to happen.

Marx didn't even necessarily want welfare for non workers lol. Marx didn't even want wages fixed by the state. In a marxist model you could have a million dollar year wages theoretically, and non working poors dying of hunger.

A model with all co-ops where Apple is fully owned by employees, and so the Apple secretary is immensely rich, can be marxist while people employed in companies that fail don't have to eat.

I know all of that.

I also know everytime you attack private capital what you get is state capital, not co-ops as the main organization form.


by Luciom P

I am ok with using "state capitalism" if you prefer..

This is a much more accurate way to describe Russia and China, so yes please.


by Bobo Fett P

The comparison should probably be to a company's board of directors, who I assume would also stay out of operational matters for the most part.

A board of directors sets policy and determines the direction of the organization. Do you not think a school board should do the same thing? If you don't think what kinds of materials are included in a library fall under policy, I'll need to give another "Cmon Bobo".

FTR, I think >99% of all the book "bans"* are pretty stupid. But there is no way that the book linked earlier should be in any school. Unfortunately, the current crop right-wing idiots is all too willing to go over the top on everything. And so here we are.


*I put "bans" in quotes because there are no bans happening. All these materials can be found elsewhere. What is happening is the choice on what is available in a school library is being removed from the librarians to a higher authority (rightly or wrongly). Of course librarians have no special training that qualifies them to make choices like this - they are organizers and administrators.


by Didace P

A board of directors sets policy and determines the direction of the organization. Do you not think a school board should do the same thing? If you don't think what kinds of materials are included in a library fall under policy, I'll need to give another "Cmon Bobo".

FTR, I think >99% of all the book "bans"* are pretty stupid. But there is no way that the book linked earlier should be in any school.

No it's the liberal-led schools in blue districts of red states trolling.

When you read of absolutely normal books being banned, it's liberal schools who react to the law banning the actual pornographic, grooming books by self-removing non pornographic books from public school libraries claiming they fall under that law scope, on purpose, to then claim RDS (or other republican governors or legislatures) banned those books.


by Didace P

Of course librarians have no special training that qualifies them to make choices like this - they are organizers and administrators.

This is sort of silly. One of my good friends is an elementary school librarian. They are a teacher, like any other teacher, who has been regularly trained with ongoing professional development about how best to educate children, and aren't just "organizers", but absolutely phenomenal at helping kids develop a love of reading and through reading to explore and understand their world. Helping support students chose books that are impactful to them is absolutely part of their job and their experience does make them objectively more qualified to make choices than random right wing politicians. There is no need to dismiss them as just organizers like the only duty of a school librarian is returning books to the right place on the shelf. It is literally the job of my friend to help curate the books that are in their library, something they do with considerable thought and care.


"Library of Science degree teaches the management of books and other information, particularly through the collection, preservation, and organization of books and other materials found in libraries."

Source.

There is no need to dismiss them as just organizers like the only duty of a school librarian is returning books to the right place on the shelf.

I don't believe I did that. It seems quite the extreme interpretation of my words.


Also, it's hard to have a conversation when Luciom continues to insert his special brand of lunacy.


by Didace P

Also, it's hard to have a conversation when Luciom continues to insert his special brand of lunacy.

What would be my lunacy itt


by Luciom P

What do you think of teachers who put BLM or LGBTQ+ flags in the classroom, would you agree with me those are radical leftists who shouldn't be near children, or even using the flag of marxist movements as proof would be paranoia?

What does BLM have to do with radical leftists or people who shouldn't be near children?

The same question SHOULD be asked for LGBTQ but I already know your answer


by coordi P

What does BLM have to do with radical leftists or people who shouldn't be near children?

The same question SHOULD be asked for LGBTQ but I already know your answer

What has BLM to do with radical leftists?

Really?

A movement founded by actual self defined Marxists, based on critical race theory which is a Marxist theory?

I mean if we want to deny basic reality all goes I guess, do we really have to discuss is BLM is leftism or not wtf


by Luciom P

What has BLM to do with radical leftists?

Really?

A movement founded by actual self defined Marxists, based on critical race theory which is a Marxist theory?

I mean if we want to deny basic reality all goes I guess, do we really have to discuss is BLM is leftism or not wtf

Apparently acknowledging that blacks are overrepresented in police murders makes you a "radical" leftist (and a danger to children for some reason, but you decided not to address that)

BLM as a movement has nothing to do with marxism or critical race theory, even if it was founded with those two ideologies in mind. And I'm not saying it was founded based on Marxism and Critical Race Theory, I'm just taking your word for it.


by coordi P

Apparently acknowledging that blacks are overrepresented in police murders makes you a "radical" leftist (and a danger to children for some reason, but you decided not to address that)

BLM as a movement has nothing to do with marxism or critical race theory, even if it was founded with those two ideologies in mind. And I'm not saying it was founded based on Marxism and Critical Race Theory, I'm just taking your word for it.

Marxism and all it's derivatives are the worst set of ideas ever developed in human history. The most evil (far worse than Nazism), the most damaging. Nothing comes close.

Anything that is even vaguely inspired by it is poisonous for society and shouldn't have a place in society, at least not one funded directly or indirectly by public money.

Why is the most dangerous set of ideas in human history dangerous when used by educators you ask.

I don't know man, if you don't agree with Marxism and everything deriving from it is bad stuff, of course you would not agree with me.

but I wouldn't trust my children to people who are in any way connected to Marxist thoughts and ideas .

Even the concept itself of "social justice" is inherently inimical to all my core values and if I can, I wouldn't pay salaries to people who believe in it to teach to kids.

Given we are talking which kind of political leaning I would exclude from education, if a true spoil system existed, please let me consider BLM a very leftist organization that doesn't reflect in any way or form what I want my kids to be taught value wise.


And btw blacks aren't targeted more by the police than they should at all, they simply commit way more crimes than other ethnic groups (for whatever reason) so ofc they interact disproportionally with the police.

So the whole idea is based on a fundamental lie to stir racial hatred.

Which is what Marxism is all about, lie incessantly, telling people their bad conditions are never their own fault rather they are victims of oppression, to motivate people to riot and try to bring down the system


by Luciom P

Marxism and all it's derivatives are the worst set of ideas ever developed in human history. The most evil (far worse than Nazism), the most damaging. Nothing comes close.

Anything that is even vaguely inspired by it is poisonous for society and shouldn't have a place in society, at least not one funded directly or indirectly by public money.

Why is the most dangerous set of ideas in human history dangerous when used by educators you ask.

I do

BLM isn't an organization, its a movement. The whole marxism thing is more propaganda used as a way to discredit an idea that isn't associated with any one person.

Like, in 2015 one lady said she was a trained Marxist and you've used that as justification to dismiss any sort of validity to a social movement that has hundreds of millions of supporters

Frankly, you are smarter than that.


by Luciom P

And btw blacks aren't targeted more by the police than they should at all, they simply commit way more crimes than other ethnic groups (for whatever reason) so ofc they interact disproportionally with the police.

So the whole idea is based on a fundamental lie to stir racial hatred.

Which is what Marxism is all about, lie incessantly, telling people their bad conditions are never their own fault rather they are victims of oppression, to motiv

Are you marxist? Because you constantly lie and misrepresent. You are literally squirming around right now blasting off lies


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