The costs of trans visibility
Yesterday, Dylan Mulvaney broke her silence: https://www.tiktok.com/@dylanmulvaney/vi....
For context, this is a trans influencer who built a 10 million strong following on TikTok. She took a brand deal with budweiser to post an ad on an instagram, and the anti-trans right went absolutely ballistic, calling for a boycott, condemning the company, and to some perhaps unknowable degree it influenced that Budweiser sales dropped by a 1/4 and
. Dylan speaks more personally about the effect of the hatred on her.
What strikes me about this story is that it is just about visibility. This isn't inclusion in sports or gender-affirming care for minors, it was just that a trans person was visible. This wasn't even visibility in a TV commerical that a poor right-winger is forced to see, it was an ad on her own instagram page. We're all in our own social media algorithm influenced bubbles, but from my vantage point it really has seemed that in the last year or so things have just gotten worse for trans people and the backlash to even minor visibility is growing.
We need to do better.
Microbet you don't go around harassing anyone who is in favor of keeping drugs illegal , or is against euthanasia being fully legal, or was in favor of lockdowns, even if those positions materially damage people infinitely more than my stance on immigration could ever do.
Calling me Marxist and saying I used words I didn't use is purely bad faith.
And you are hostile because you feel bad agreeing with me on a lot of stuff while disagreeing basically only on immigration WHEN WELFARE EXISTS. Because at no welfare we agree on immigration as well.
You just feel bad someone you perceive having values opposite to yours actually ends up asking for most of the same things you ask for.
I wasn't calling you a Marxist. I think that's pretty clear. I've been saying you fit your own definition of what a Marxist is. Your stupid definition.
Calling me Marxist and saying I used words I didn't use is purely bad faith.
And you are hostile because you feel bad agreeing with me on a lot of stuff while disagreeing basically only on immigration WHEN WELFARE EXISTS. Because at no welfare we agree on immigration as well.
You just feel bad someone you perceive having values opposite to yours actually ends up asking for most of the same things you ask for.
That's hardly the only thing I disagree with you on. For one, not everything is a first principle. Your general perception of the world is very far off. That's stuff like you being terrified that trans activists are taking over and all the culture war idiocy you subscribe to. It's not one particular fact or ideal like being for or against government enforced discrimination, but it's also not nothing.
I don't feel bad that I agree with you some things. I'm sure I agree with you on a lot of things. But yeah, in particular I don't like conservatives and reactionaries pretending they love freedom.
Microbet you don't go around harassing anyone who is in favor of keeping drugs illegal , or is against euthanasia being fully legal, or was in favor of lockdowns, even if those positions materially damage people infinitely more than my stance on immigration could ever do.
I have posted plenty about how stupid I think the drug war is in particular. But the difference is that I think there are well meaning good people who are just wrong about drugs. I think your position and attitude about refugees is heinous.
There’s a difference between support and proving. It certainly supports that notion. No it doesn’t prove it. That is a separate debate, but also one that is obviously true.
"Obviously true"? Just because a few clowns on TV or other media are, in fact, clowns, doesn't come anywhere close to "most pedophiles are right wing".
I have posted plenty about how stupid I think the drug war is in particular. But the difference is that I think there are well meaning good people who are just wrong about drugs. I think your position and attitude about refugees is heinous.
You don't harass people who defend the illegality of drugs in non-drug related threads, that's my point.
Btw the people coming by boats in Italy ARENT REFUGEES, at most they are ASYLUM SEEKERS, they aren't people whose status as been assessed as deserving asylum yet ffs!
You don't harass people who defend the illegality of drugs in non-drug related threads, that's my point.
Btw the people coming by boats in Italy ARENT REFUGEES, at most they are ASYLUM SEEKERS, they aren't people whose status as been assessed as deserving asylum yet ffs!
I think many or most people who are for the drug war think it is for the good of who they see as the victims of the drug war. You also mentioned euthanasia - again, I think the strongest opposition means well. So, no, I'm not mad at people who I disagree with if I think they are good well meaning people. I just try to convince them that they are wrong and are doing more harm than good.
But your attitude is heinous and selfish and awful in addition to being freedom hating.
"Btw the people coming by boats in Italy ARENT REFUGEES, at most they are ASYLUM SEEKERS, they aren't people whose status as been assessed as deserving asylum yet ffs!"
What is this? Are you pretending it's some sort of statement of fact? The fact is they are people. That's a fact. Whether they are refugees or asylum seekers or immigrants is semantics and/or legal definitions and you should realize that "legal" is not the same as "true". I'm sure that's clear to you when you want it to be that way. And they deserve to live in Italy every bit as much as you do.
Lol no they don't and again, this is a position that you know the majority of the people on this forum agree with me on, so why do you uniquely harass me for it?
Btw we do have actual refugees in Italy in large numbers, and I agree with having them, and that more than fulfills any purported moral claim about an ethical responsibility to help foreigners in distress.
Just the Ukrainians we took in spending a lot of money to do so are more than enough to never have to do anything for anyone in the following decades.
You call a bunch of human beings who are looking for a better life "garbage people" and you have to live with the results. Kinda surprising I'm the only one who brings it up, but whatever. Most people probably just choose to ignore you because of that instead.
Enough, I am going to put you in ignore like the gorgon guy
Really, especially the bolded? You’re ignoring the entire history of the institutionalization of lgb issues in an incredibly discriminatory and nonbelieveable way just to make a narrow point about trans surgeries? that’s disgusting.
If you actually just cared about the potential misdiagnosis of some children, you need to acknowledge the long history of gays and lesbians being abused under the same logic, denounce the repeated transphobic po
I'm not ignoring the history of institutionalization of lgb issues, it's just not relevant to the topic at hand. If anything, it parallels the position I am taking. I think many young people seeking out gender treatment don't really need it, just like gay people don't need any treatment for their sexuality because being gay is not a mental disorder.
I've explained my concerns numerous times:
- Medical treatments of young people that potentially cause infertility (this should be a last resort, even for someone with severe dysphoria).
- Unnecessary (overly invasive) treatments for people with only moderate levels of gender dysphoria that could be managed in less harmful ways
- Young people with other issues (or just normal kids, going through the usual issues of finding their way in life) labeling themselves as gender dysphoric under the influence of media or social contagion. (To be sure, this is a common phenomenon with many mental health conditions, not only gender dysphoria).
Nothing about this is transphobic. I accept that there are people who do derive benefits from transgender treatments, and that's fine. And I accept that there are people who don't have gender dysphoria, but who feel that the trans label best fits their identity, and I don't have any problem with that.
I'm not ignoring the history of institutionalization of lgb issues, it's just not relevant to the topic at hand. If anything, it parallels the position I am taking. I think many young people seeking out gender treatment don't really need it, just like gay people don't need any treatment for their sexuality because being gay is not a mental disorder.
I've explained my concerns numerous times:
- Medical treatments of young people that potential
If this is your argument then make it. It doesn’t match your previous rhetoric in the thread. It also doesn’t change the fact that you have repeatedly said no one is saying gay people are mentally ill when that is not true. It also doesn’t change the fact that you’ve said gender isn’t real, so it’s going to be hard to have a debate on those issues with someone who doesn’t even think they are real.
What evidence do you have of a social contagion?
What evidence do you have that people with other issues are being labeled dysphoric with other issues?
What medical treatments?
Because originally you saidand what you posted doesn't support that. It also doesn't support "conservatives are more supportive of pedophilia".
If you recall, I was originally responding to a post that without any kind of evidence referred to pedophiles, mengele-like doctors, and marxists running gender clinics. That i’m the one deviating from facts is an insane take.
If you recall, I was originally responding to a post that without any kind of evidence referred to pedophiles, mengele-like doctors, and marxists running gender clinics. That i’m the one deviating from facts is an insane take.
Are you really going with the "Everyone else does it worse than I do" defense.
If you recall, I was originally responding to a post that without any kind of evidence referred to pedophiles, mengele-like doctors, and marxists running gender clinics. That i’m the one deviating from facts is an insane take.
Hell Jesus how much you guys like to invent things.
I referred to pedophiles, mengele doctors and Marxists *as the founding fathers of gender theory*, the people who invented all those concepts you refer to as "science" about gender and trans ness.
That is literally objectively true, the pedophile group of french thinkers is cited a lot of times in gender studies (positively) for example.
AND YOU KNOW THAT.
If this is your argument then make it. It doesn’t match your previous rhetoric in the thread. It also doesn’t change the fact that you have repeatedly said no one is saying gay people are mentally ill when that is not true. It also doesn’t change the fact that you’ve said gender isn’t real, so it’s going to be hard to have a debate on those issues with someone who doesn’t even think they are real.
W
Massive amounts of desistors (people who as kids self identify as trans then later stop to do so), unprecedented jump in trans self identification among your girls.
We know for a fact it isn't only because trans are more accepted than before, because if that was the case trans identification would grow the same for biological males and biological females.
Given it is happening (among the kids) much more often among females, we know it's social contagion/pressure, because we know from literature girls are far more susceptible to that than boys.
Same reasons why we know social media drives some kids to suicide (and not other societal phenomenos), girl suicide rates increased more than boy suicide rates, and suicide ideatore among kids cite social media pressure to be perfect and so on very often.
If anything happens behavior wise for girls, the proper H0 Is "It Is societal pressure/contagion causing it", it's people who disagree who have the onus of proof.
Oh another proof is all the families having more than one trans kids, obvious parental pressure
Hell Jesus how much you guys like to invent things.
I referred to pedophiles, mengele doctors and Marxists *as the founding fathers of gender theory*, the people who invented all those concepts you refer to as "science" about gender and trans ness.
That is literally objectively true, the pedophile group of french thinkers is cited a lot of times in gender studies (positively) for example.
AND YOU KNOW THAT.
Massive amounts of desistors (people who as kids self identify as trans then later stop to do so), unprecedented jump in trans self identification among your girls.
We know for a fact it isn't only because trans are more accepted than before, because if that was the case trans identification would grow the same for biological males and biological females.
Given it is happening (among the kids) much more often among females, we know it's socia
working really hard to prove jackontheturn wrong I hope he denounces this.
Such a bad chain of reasoning there Luciom. Boys likely are more reluctant to come out as trans just like boys have always been more reluctant to come out as gay because people will try to assault them for it. You know this.
Such a bad chain of reasoning there Luciom. Boys likely are more reluctant to come out as trans just like boys have always been more reluctant to come out as gay because people will try to assault them for it. You know this.
True, and in a patriarchal society, trans women and effeminate gay men are more bullied than trans men and lesbians on average due to misogyny.
I think it’s wrong to exclude black women from womens sports, because they are women.
I think it’s wrong to exclude trans women from womens sports, because they are women.
This is super racist thing to say.
You might want to make a point but the way you do it is racist. Youre comparing apples and oranges here.
Massive amounts of desistors (people who as kids self identify as trans then later stop to do so), unprecedented jump in trans self identification among your girls.
We know for a fact it isn't only because trans are more accepted than before, because if that was the case trans identification would grow the same for biological males and biological females.
Given it is happening (among the kids) much more often among females, we know it's socia
Yea, you are forgetting that there are some trans people that are really trans though.
But you are right that the radical left is overdoing it now.
Posts with verified facts = nonsense
Posts that accuse pro-trans people as being violent pedophillic corrupt marxist trash =
This is super racist thing to say.
You might want to make a point but the way you do it is racist. Youre comparing apples and oranges here.
not apples and oranges, men and women.
black women deserve to compete in women's sports because they are women.
trans women don't deserve to compete in women's sports because they were born with testicles that produce over 10x the amount of testosterone which produce wildly increased amounts of strength and muscular development.
besides being a racist AF post, it's also nonsense.
a person saying they are a woman, despite being born a man, is totally fine. when you force us to believe the same thing, it's not fine.
