Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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ok but I can buy that they are victims domestically and that Hamas has been repressive (I dont know this for sure and I am just allowing it, I could be wrong). I say the same thing about USA govt and police to our citizens.
I dont generally disagree. I doubt I go as far as you as the extent but sure.
but I take issue with the idea that dead Palestinians are good for Hamas and part of their plan and something that they welcome.
I dont think planning is involved at all. They just dont care and it aids there cause. So the idea that killing loads of innocent people might put pressure on them is plain stupid as well as monstrous.
I do think it's going to be a recruitment sergaent for many years to come for the various extremist organisation, it will increase sympathy for them in the general populations and i do think it's been devastating for Israeli support internationally. I'm sorry but that all aids Hamas' cause whether we like to say it or not.
to digress, the liberal position is absolutely anti-Netanyahu. but it is not anti-Ganz or the rest of the genocidal butchers who are in line to replace him. nor is it anti-Israeli society which has cultivated multiple generations of hate who are executing this literal genocide. Nazi Germany did not happen overnight but took centuries of inculcating the people with dehumanizing the Jews of Eastern Europe. it is a testament to the efficiency of the Zionist project that they were able to achieve such brutality and lack of humanity in a few generations.
I'm far more against the actions/policies than anyhting about individuals. I'm aware that Netanyahu is not even the worst of the monsters but if a repalcement is a bit of a better monster then that isn't going to move me.
this is just false. even according the USA Iran was not notifiied.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/11/politics/...
I find it insulting to the Palestinians to think they are just doing the bidding of Iran. they are fighting for their own survival. they are not beholden to Iran and even fought against them in Syria 10 years ago. they are now even more capable of autonomy given their in house weapons manuf
I had honestly read that article before posting my opinion but i think there is a lot of govt involvemnt going on here.
I am totally prepared and i woulsnt be suprised if i end up being wrong on eveythign that ive stated - as these are just my opinions. It looks like this war is going to spread and get worse and some of these questions will be answered and i hope that when its all over that still have the opportunity to post about who was right and wrong.
its not always good news to be on the evac lists. those are Israel's main targets. better hope that her dad does not have any notable skills.
Noteworthy skills.
No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. God instructed Isaac or someone to kill his own son. The heart is deceitful, totally wicked. Who can know it?
this is just false. even according the USA Iran was not notifiied.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/11/politics/...
I find it insulting to the Palestinians to think they are just doing the bidding of Iran. they are fighting for their own survival. they are not beholden to Iran and even fought against them in Syria 10 years ago. they are now even more capable of autonomy given their in house weapons manuf
Hamas is doing the bidding of Iran, not "the Palestinians". Which is why Hamas leadership is in Qatar, an Iranian allied country.
And some terrorists in Yemen are doing the same, at the same time, in a clearly coordinated attack on the west.
Hamas is doing the bidding of Iran, not "the Palestinians". Which is why Hamas leadership is in Qatar, an Iranian allied country.
And some terrorists in Yemen are doing the same, at the same time, in a clearly coordinated attack on the west.
Do you think Iran wants full blown war? Does getting into direct military conflict with Israel further their goals in the region? They've got a good thing going basically running Iraq and their proxies causing havoc in other countries. I think Iran would have a pretty good idea what Israel's response would be to 10/7. Would that be pushing the envelope a bit far towards full on war? I don't see that in their benefit but since Hamas pulled it off they can't leave them hanging out to dry too much.
Do you think Iran wants full blown war? Does getting into direct military conflict with Israel further their goals in the region? They've got a good thing going basically running Iraq and their proxies causing havoc in other countries. I think Iran would have a pretty good idea what Israel's response would be to 10/7. Would that be pushing the envelope a bit far towards full on war? I don't see that in their benefit but since Hamas pulled
I think what they want is higher oil prices right now, I think they acted with Hamas + the houtis because sanctions against Russia forced Russia to sell it's oil at far lower prices to mostly the same countries Iran usually sells it's oil to, so Iran was strapped for cash more than what official oil prices would make it appear to be.
Not sure if you checked Iran oil exports increased massively, they are pumping everything they can and oil prices would have tanked a lot more if not for these coordinated attacks
Trolly sometimes i cannot tell if you are trolling or not. Your name is apt
Do you think Iran wants full blown war? Does getting into direct military conflict with Israel further their goals in the region? They've got a good thing going basically running Iraq and their proxies causing havoc in other countries. I think Iran would have a pretty good idea what Israel's response would be to 10/7. Would that be pushing the envelope a bit far towards full on war? I don't see that in their benefit but since Hamas pulled
I think iran does not want hamas to surrender, which is why they haven't
even wapo is reporting that guy from Jan wasnt a KHHHHamas. they killed him for flying a drone to report.
tell me more about how Israel isnt just targeting journalists
Mets, these are human beings. They aren't cartoon monsters who don't mind seeing their children starve to death, they are real people who love their children as much as anyone. You've gone full Stormfront, man, you're in here screaming "You will not replace us!" It's time to stop justifying massacring women and children.
I.can cite if you like but stormfronters are rooting for hamas
Do you think Iran wants full blown war? Does getting into direct military conflict with Israel further their goals in the region? They've got a good thing going basically running Iraq and their proxies causing havoc in other countries. I think Iran would have a pretty good idea what Israel's response would be to 10/7. Would that be pushing the envelope a bit far towards full on war? I don't see that in their benefit but since Hamas pulled
They have a good thing going as far as destabilizing the Arab world; but they have domestic issues, and as Lucium pointed out it appears they are cynically using the Palestinians to attempt to address these issues.
I will say I dont think it is an accident that all the Arab countries where there are militias and/or the govt itself that are receiving Iranian military aid are basically failed states now, and the ones that dont are doing relatively well. Unfortunately, because of their extreme bigotry and wounded honor, many Arabs (at the state level and people themselves) are more than willing to do Iran's bidding to obviously their own detriment, as long as it means getting back at the Yahood.
Richard Hanania has a fascination with Saddam Hussein and talks about him a lot; and he argues that for all his faults as a human being and a leader, Saddam doesn't get enough credit for his efforts to curb Iran destabilizing the Arab world. Hannania also points out that Saddam's ruthless use of WMD against Iran is an important reason that the revolution didn't spread and we aren't dealing with another Persian empire right now (at least without the US having to get directly involved).
**This is an aside, but Hanania also argues that again for all his faults, Saddam wasn't suicidal. However, he had no direct communication with the US, and poor intelligence (as despots who murder the bearers of bad news often do, because then no one wants to give them bad news) and he really had no clue that invading Kuwait was a red line. And if the US had maintained better communication with Iraq, we could have used the stick to curb his worst homicidal impulses (at least when it came to attacking US aligned Arabs and Israel. We were more than willing to allow Iran and Iraq to bleed themselves dry fighting each other)
Mets, these are human beings. They aren't cartoon monsters who don't mind seeing their children starve to death, they are real people who love their children as much as anyone. You've gone full Stormfront, man, you're in here screaming "You will not replace us!" It's time to stop justifying massacring women and children.
A lot of what you are saying is true
Pretending that Gazans don't multiply more than other cultures on purpose to try to gain the majority just like Arafat told them to is ignorant
Rapid population growth during times of rapid economic growth, especially as the economy hits certain income levels (not too far above subsistence) is completely normal and requires no "Great Replacement Theory"
The biggest checks on the population explosion (post WWII, we don't see a lot of "total" wars that used to wipe out a generation) are invariably greater female participation in the workforce and higher costs of raising a child, both of which correlate strongly with later stages of economic development, which the Palestinians have trouble reaching because, you know, ****ing Hamas and Israel.
This whole insinuation that Palestinians, specifically women, are making their family decisions based on some insane conspiracy is frankly just mentally challenged.
A lot of what you are saying is true
Pretending that Gazans don't multiply more than other cultures on purpose to try to gain the majority just like Arafat told them to is ignorant
It’s intellectually dishonest to pretend that one cherry-picked quote from a former leader gives you a deep and accurate insight into the minds an entire population, but I understand why claiming otherwise is deeply suited to your personal biases against non-Jews.
I don’t believe you have the intellectual capability to analyze information beyond a very surface and cursory level as your conclusions are almost always very flawed and logically shallow. Maybe it’s shitty of me to pick on you when I know you inherently don’t have the acumen for critical thinking, but your obstinacy and petulance and arrogance regarding the deaths of “others” is so repugnant I find it difficult to totally ignore. Sorry.
Rapid population growth during times of rapid economic growth, especially as the economy hits certain income levels (not too far above subsistence) is completely normal and requires no "Great Replacement Theory"
The biggest checks on the population explosion (post WWII, we don't see a lot of "total" wars that used to wipe out a generation) are invariably greater female participation in the workforce and higher costs of raising a child, both
Except there is has been no rapid economic growth in the Palestinian territories. Quite the opposite. I think the "charitable" explanation for population growth is the populations turn towards Islamism, and the accompanying lack of economic and reproductive freedom for women.
However, I think you are discounting well-documented and understood explicit efforts by Palestinian society to breed martyrs for the resistance (and Israel explicitly encouraging population growth through Jewish immigration and higher levels of fecundity towards similar ends). And honestly, this only sounds like an irrational idea through a western lens of morality.
If you have a very conservative, tribal, honor focused, theocratic moral code; this is completely rationale behavior.
