Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Sure. That doesn't mean the Rafah tunnels aren't a significant military target worth destroying. That being said, I am not as convinced as Mets that Israel has the external or internal leverage to undertake said objective.
If their goal is to keep the Palestinians down, it isn't even obvious further weakening Hamas furthers that objective. Hard to imagine the Palestinians pick themselves up in any meaningful way under the current iterat
I think we agree. I was mostly pointing out mets' implicit fantasy that destroying Rafah tunnels means destroying Hamas.
The real project is far bigger.
I actually think it must be done. But to do it, Israel must spend its moral authority sparingly.
It's just squandering it right now. And I think Bibi is doing it on purpose.
Everyone keeps saying Israel is losing its "good will" or "moral authority." And I really am having a hard time conceptualizing what this actually means in the tangible world. All of their supposed "good will" or "moral authority" on October 8th didn't bring back any of the hostages or bring back to life any of the dead civilians slaughtered by the Palestinian Jihadis. And it didn't stop any of the 20,000 (or whatever the number) rockets Palestinians have fired at them since.
Israeli bombs and tanks and soldiers are the reasons Israel has achieved whatever retribution and security it has since 10/7, not "good will."
I mean I get that a few more antisemites are now going to boycott Sabra hummus and harass Jews on college campuses because of this. But it doesn't seem like Israel's enemies have the ability or will to kill Jews any more than they did before, and it isn't obvious its allies support them any less (tangibly, I get rhetoric changes, but talk is cheap).
I mean the truth is Israel is doing all of its own fighting anyways, and the alliances it has mainly has to do with common enemies (ISIS and Iranian linked Islamists mainly); and the operation in Gaza doesn't seem to have really changed anything in this respect.
Netanyahu is just exercising the will of the people of Israel. its a totally brainwashed and depraved society on the level that we have never seen before.
But I thought u were saying it’s Biden that was doing the genocide and he could of stop when ever he wanted it ?
Why u blame bibi and Israel now ?
Everyone keeps saying Israel is losing its "good will" or "moral authority." And I really am having a hard time conceptualizing what this actually means in the tangible world. All of their supposed "good will" or "moral authority" on October 8th didn't bring back any of the hostages or bring back to life any of the dead civilians slaughtered by the Palestinian Jihadis. And it didn't stop any of the 20,000 (or whatever the number) rockets
This is one
Israel is currently trying to find a bypass to obtain weapons and raw materials from non-American outlets to overcome the material gaps of critical combat equipment, KAN News reported on Monday morning.
KAN cites a security official as claiming that the "increasing criticism and delegitimization fueled by both Muslim groups and antisemites endanger the transfer of US-backed ammunition and warfare.
There is concern that the tensions with the US are stimulated by the entry of Israeli troops into Rafah alongside the humanitarian issue in Gaza.[These factors] will affect Americans' willingness to continue assisting Israel with the same intensity."
https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/a...
How it plays out - especially given the trump factor- who knows? but being so monstrous that even the usa might turn away is skirting with disaster for israel.
Mr Netanyahu's coalition government relies on the support of Jewish ultranationalist extremists.
They will urge him to ignore the resolution. If he does, the US will have to respond.
If more words are not enough, the biggest lever at President Biden's disposal controls the air bridge of arms supplies to Israel, dozens of flights by huge transport planes bringing in the munitions Israel has used in the war, as well the ones it would need if it goes through with its plan to widen the ground war to Rafah
no, I think the Jewish people should be able to remain there. but it should be a one state solution with guaranteed rights for all. call me a liberal I guess.
that may take some reeducation of the part of the Zionist Supremacists. but I see no reason why they cant live side by side when the radical elements of both groups are removed.
I truly believe the vast majority of the people dont want bloodshed.
I'm afraid that last bit is not true. As indicated by polling and the Israeli press, the Israeli public doesn't think the military is being aggressive enough. I think it's helpful for people to understand Israel is a fascist state and the implications of that. The former constant low simmer of Israeli hate and Jewish supremacy is now a roiling boil. They won't be reeducated, and the radical elements are like a cancer which has spread across the whole body politic. It would be like trying to take the fly out of the fly in the movie of the same name.
We have to treat them as if they were any other country committing genocide. We need to hold Israel accountable to international law which would include trials for crimes against humanity of all the high level decision makers, including those in the U.S. There would need to be an occupation of Israel by an international coalition which would hold a peace while a two state solution was implemented, during which also Israel would be stripped of its nuclear weapons. We could this because, without us, Israel could never come close to sustaining the military power they currently project.
I think we agree. I was mostly pointing out mets' implicit fantasy that destroying Rafah tunnels means destroying Hamas.
The real project is far bigger.
I actually think it must be done. But to do it, Israel must spend its moral authority sparingly.
It's just squandering it right now. And I think Bibi is doing it on purpose.
I think Israel has shown that their military goals are more important than their image. They should at least let more aid through. BFD if Hamas gets some extra bags of flour out of it.
I'm afraid that last bit is not true. As indicated by polling and the Israeli press, the Israeli public doesn't think the military is being aggressive enough. I think it's helpful for people to understand Israel is a fascist state and the implications of that. The former constant low simmer of Israeli hate and Jewish supremacy is now a roiling boil. They won't be reeducated, and the radical elements are like a cancer which has spread across
I agree. I wrote that many months ago. you can see how my position has changed a lot since then.
its a Supremacist society indoctrinated from birth to commit this genocide.
I think we agree. I was mostly pointing out mets' implicit fantasy that destroying Rafah tunnels means destroying Hamas.
The real project is far bigger.
I actually think it must be done. But to do it, Israel must spend its moral authority sparingly.
It's just squandering it right now. And I think Bibi is doing it on purpose.
Why hasn't Israel really began destroying rafah yet if it's goal is to kill lots of civilians
They bomb Rafah every night
do you know how the Health Ministry counts deaths?
its not the same entity when the infrastructure is completely destroyed.
and Israel itself, along with international monitors have vetted their numbers as accurate in all other conflicts.
the fact is that it is a massive undercount of deaths. for instance, before the infamous video of the 4 young men being stalked and blown to bits, do you think they were in the count?
actually, I dont know if those guys are even in the count.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-eas...
missing people are not in the death count but this is an indication that they arent really keeping proper records and have not been for some time.
those sources are not accurate at the moment. they are not being updated. they dont have the ability to count the dead right now.
Of interest. The NYT is walking back a portion of the Hamas rape charges.
