The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Well I don't think it's rigged. I think the main problem is bad software and not putting money into the site. Like if there is a bot problem they don't care....not sure they care about any of us and they don't care about poker

How can you cry so much when you say you are winning at a 10bb/100 rate, why would you ever leave with that win rate, I cannot
imagine if you were losing how much we would hear from you?

He has been complaining about the RNG on Bodog for 15 years. Please stop engaging with him on this as it is distracting from the serious issue. People with less knowledge will lump that together with our discussion on the bot / colluder rings which discredits our concerns.

No wonder support dismisses the e-mails on the colluders because they probably get dozens of e-mails a day about their RNG so anytime someone complains about the fairness of the games the first instinct is to dismiss it out of hand (and deservedly so).

See that is the issue. This is the only site I complain about the RNG on. All the other ones seem fine to me except this one. I have played well over 4 million hands in my lifetime and I just have a problem with the RNG on this one. This is why I bring the topic up. I understand I have a decent win rate the fact of the matter is that has nothing to do with why I'm questioning it most losing players question the RNG I'm not losing and I still question it. And currently I am on a terrible downswing on global poker right now. And I still don't question the RNG there.b and I'm just saying maybe part of the problem is just a bad dealing of cards that are creating these situation where people have a smaller win rate? See and that's the strange part to me I've been on bodog complaining for 15 years a winning player, still playing 15 years later still winning, and still have the same concerns yet it's completely dismissed as tin foil hats

the rng on bovada isn’t different mate, stop it

Even if it IS different, it would still affect everyone equally. It’s a non-issue.

See I don't get how you can be winning for 15 years still playing now and have everything you say completely dismissed. I understand most losing players say the games are rigged but I'm not losing and I haven't been losing and I still think there's something odd about the run out of the hands. I just don't get why you wouldn't take it serious coming from a guy who's been winning for years and years. And I understand you all want to see data, you all want to see it backed up with numbers, well I don't have the numbers I'm just saying I've played pretty much every site and this is the only one I have questions about. And some of the other sites I've lost on over my sample and I still didn't have questions about how the cards were dealt. I really only had questions about how the cards were dealt on two sites ignition and the old cake poker. And I crushed the sitting goes on cake poker back in the day and I still used to send them like 25 hands a day that just seemed completely odd to me. It's just weird how this is completely dismissed coming from a guy who's been winning for a long time.

And you hit the nail on the head. Because it affects everybody equally they still call it fair. If they get labeled as Fair that in general they say well the RNG is okay because it's fair for everybody. That doesn't explain the fact that it may not be dealing 100% randomly. See that's the catchphrase in the whole thing as long as it's fair it passes the random test. It doesn't mean they're dealing 100% randomly though. I know you guys have trouble believing this but I've actually talked to multiple companies that audit the random generators of these sites. This is the stuff they told me. Like one time I asked a site during your audit if a site was dealing more aces of Kings would you find that? And their answer was you're looking at it the wrong way all we do is like if you bring your car in we turn the key to make sure the car starts and that's it. I was pretty shocked by that answer cuz it basically means they're not analyzing any of the hands that the site is dealing they get a certificate by saying yes you're random generator works and that's it. Well that leaves things open to a lot of interpretation of what actually is random. All I'm saying is sometimes when things don't seem right and when rates are going down it could be worthwhile to question just in general what a sites motive is. We know that any poker site is going to prefer that when is win at a smaller rate. Winter is a generally not good for a poker site because they take money off of the site. So if you can do something to slow down the win rates of a winning player would some sites do it? One thing I know about money you never have enough. That's always the answer people give they got plenty of money and my answer is always nobody has plenty of money, Elon musk is still trying to make money

Once again I don't think it's rigged. If u want to get to bottom of things u have to consider all options.

Remember years go on party poker fast fold games? Some people that were winners figure out they were getting less buttons then losing players ? Well was it rigged ? Don't know. .....but u have to consider everything at this point. Imagine if they posted it and said I'm getting less buttons? I am sure the initial responses were hey take your wild rigged conspiracy theory somewhere else. Come to find out it was true they were getting less buttons

And everybody understands what you're saying you're playing you think there's bots and collusion okay move on

So two hands and this is what I'm saying about this site. So first hand a guy raises I three bet him with five six he then four bets me I call. The flop comes down three four Jack I bet he calls turn is an ace he checked I checked the river is a two so I make a straight he goes all in I call he has Ace King. So they got to make him hit his Ace and then I hit the straight. About five hands later I have Ace King I raise guy we raises me I call. Flop king queen 7 the guy bets I just call turn is a tool he bets again I call the river is an eight he bets again I call he has 88 so made a set on the river. How does everybody that's in the hand just magically make a hand every time? They say that chance of hitting a hand on a flop a pair of better is like 11% not on ignition poker it isn't it's about 75%. And the reason is deemed random is because it's 75% for everybody so it's technically Fair

Mods, please ban the rigtard.

U can't ban people because u don't agree with them. Free speech is u accept things u don't want to hear from people u don't want to hear it from. Any logical thinking person will consider all things when trying to figure things out. So one person has done some work and he is thinking maybe the site is not invested and those boys are colluding, could be. Let's also consider some other aspects. Sites can be greedy, maybe they are doing things to keep winners win rates down, it would not be the first time for such activity. I can't understand how some people just have 100% trust in some entity that's trying to take the most money they can from you. Like it never crosses your mind that maybe they're doing something unethical to get the money?

Agree with banning this ****. Thread is filled with garbage and taking away from the real issues Bodog faces. Bots and collusion.

Well that's all I'm saying how do you know it's bots and collusion? Because you're taking somebody else's word for it. I'm saying here's another point of view that maybe what I'm saying is also correct. How do you know what the other guy is telling you is correct? Because he has somewhat of Fame and he's well known? It doesn't mean he's correct on the subject. And I respect Patrick Howard, but I'm saying just because he's saying one thing doesn't mean it's 100% true. I'm saying you could say every single site has bots and collusion. I would be willing to bet that that stuff is present on every site it's just a question of how much

Maybe you should consider that there's smoke where the fire is when every person in this thread thinks you're a moron. You keep derailing important discussion around tangible issues on the site affecting a lot of posters livelihoods.

I am not saying that bots and collusion aren't a problem, I am saying maybe there's other issues that are also the problem. Why don't we consider more than one option as the problem. I'm not trying to derail anybody I'm just saying you guys are definitely 100% sure that it's only one thing, bots. I'm not saying it's not I'm just saying maybe there is something else at play here also

You've never complained about a rng on any other site? I find this difficult to believe and I don't want to put words in your mouth but I feel like I have seen you complain about other sites. Were you not complaining about poker stars RNG 3-4-5 years ago?

What site are you talking about in these posts? I thought it was pokerstars

seriosly this is the kind of post of someone who doesn't understand variance/ who is very low skilled at poker.

i think everyone in this thread have experienced long bad run streaks and this is pretty normal, you just don't understand poker and don't take responsability of how bad you play, you just blame the site rng.

I live in the USA...haven't been able to play poker stars in like what 13 years. And sure I may have complained about sites in the past, but I have serious doubts about the RNG here. All I am saying is a site could be capable of anything.

Got it. Bodog could be capable of anything. We could be living in the eye of a giant.

Can you please for the love of god shut the **** up now?

[QUOTE='Darki[Per];58512968']seriosly this is the kind of post of someone who doesn't understand variance/ who is very low skilled at poker.

i think everyone in this thread have experienced long bad run streaks and this is pretty normal, you just don't understand poker and don't take responsability of how bad you play, you just blame the site rng.[/QUOTE]

What I'm trying to explain to you is this is the kind of stuff that happens all the time on ignition. It's not a once in a while thing, it's not a bad run or a good one it's an all the time thing. And I understand we see a ton more hands online I'm just saying to you on another site right now I have played over 400,000 hands in the last couple of years and I just don't see it as much there not even nearly as much. On ignition it's like they always make sure two players have a good hand at the same time it seems highly unlikely to me that that would be just a random scenario. Also when I used to play hold them a ton at ignition I would compare all my whole card wins so for example the top hands like aces kings queens Jack's King all those tops hands all the way down to say pocket sevens, and my win percentage was lower at every single category on ignition than it was at any other site that I played every time I've done it. So for example say I would win 84% of the time with pocket aces on every other site on ignition poker that number would be 81%. Say Kings was 80% on ignition poker that number would be 78% Queens might be 78% and on ignition poker that number might be 75% and it was like that for all the hands. Now what would cause that? Well my theory is the most likely scenario is you're running into other people that also make big hands at the same time. I don't care if they have six five and they flop two pair or a straight it's just it doesn't happen as much on other sites so your whole card win percentage is higher with your better hands on other sites. I don't know if anybody if you have ever looked at this but this is the scenario I always find when I compare ignition to other poker sites