Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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The actual Nazis are still the one's who have the trademark on genocide-- regardless of the fact that other groups (as per Luciom's point) did it more recently or better. So while your point here I don't think is entirely without some merit, it's the genocide that is driving the nazi claims not the fact that it's Jews.
No because they don't call the Chinese government nazist, nor the Burma government.
Nor they ever called the Utu nazists for their Tutsi genocide.
Nazism isn't only a genocidal propensity, it REQUIRES COMPLETE ANTISEMITISM so it's impossible for any jew to be a Nazi, or Nazi like, or even vaguely Nazi unless he suicides himself while trying to kill other Jews.
Genocide is a very common event in world history, and even if you mistakenly think killing 30k people of which at least half part of a terrorist group, out of 4m+, genocide (which clearly isn't in any way or form), even if we all agreed the Jews were genociding the Palestinians (they aren't), there would still be nothing to justify calling Israeli nazists, do you realize it?
Nazism doesn't mean genocidal. Genocidal means genocidal.
Nazists means Aryan racial supremacist with a particular hatred for Jews more than for any other ethnic group, totalitarian government form, AND genocidal tendencies/propensity.
The Iran theocracy is pseudo nazisti for example
Well, it actually means "people I dont like doing bad stuff" as most people who are quick to resort to "Nazi" rhetoric are pretty agnostic towards people they do like doing bad stuff (See Russia, Houthis).
But just to show how the meaning of the word is completely evolved to be mostly meaningless, Victor and others of his ilk constantly call Jews Nazis, while calling actually Nazis 'based' and supporting their atrocities.
I dont support Houthi atrocities. I support them blockading a nation doing genocide.
anyway, antisemtic is the word whose meaning has been rendered almost meaningless.
Calling a Jew a Nazist means telling him:
you hate everyone of your own blood, your actions justify the Holocaust posthumously, you and your relatives shouldn't exist, and if you keep doing it then people who intend to genocide the Jews are right.
No because they don't call the Chinese government nazist, nor the Burma government.
Nor they ever called the Utu nazists for their Tutsi genocide.
Nazism isn't only a genocidal propensity, it REQUIRES COMPLETE ANTISEMITISM so it's impossible for any jew to be a Nazi, or Nazi like, or even vaguely Nazi unless he suicides himself while trying to kill other Jews.
Genocide is a very common event in world history, and even if you mistakenly think k
I had a friend who would get piss drunk and call the people trying to kick him out of the bar nazis. I don't believe that the limits you're placing on the term exist. If people knew about or cared about the genocide in Rwanda then they absolutely could have called the Hutus nazis.
Here is a video right here comparing the Chinese to nazis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgr3InIe...
there is no shortage of Jewish people who survived the holocaust or the ancestors of them making this exact comparison.
comparison is the way we understand the world.
Comparing to the Holocaust is something I do often (and many things can and were worse than it).
That's about dropping a purported sacrality of the Holocaust as the "most evil thing that ever happened" , which it wasn't.
Nothing to do with randomly using the Nazi label, or much worse, calling Jews nazist ffs, because FOR THE JEWS the Holocaust was indeed the worst thing that ever happened.
I still want someone to explain what was the death toll point where we definitely hit genocide this time around. There was obviously a moment. 10k civilians? Was that the moment? I'm just trying to catalogue it for every past 10k death toll and every future one. Otherwise it's hard for me to tell the difference between war and genocide. But particularly in the war where the terrorist organization launches attacks from civilian infrastructure and then bolts into the tunnel system (built under the civilian infrastructure).
No because they don't call the Chinese government nazist, nor the Burma government.
Nor they ever called the Utu nazists for their Tutsi genocide.
Nazism isn't only a genocidal propensity, it REQUIRES COMPLETE ANTISEMITISM so it's impossible for any jew to be a Nazi, or Nazi like, or even vaguely Nazi unless he suicides himself while trying to kill other Jews.
Genocide is a very common event in world history, and even if you mistakenly think k
As Luckbox says there has been semantic drift; but as much as it was antisemitic, Naziism was anti-Communist (In the Nazi view of the world Communism was a Jewish plot to take over the world so a lot of overlap).
They have mostly moved past Naziism to extremist Islamism, but during and immediately following WWII the Arab nationalist movement was very openly pro Nazi, and shared the Nazi viewpoint of the world, especially with respect to ethno-fascism, communism and Jews. Even more than the Iran theocracy, Saddam Hussein could be said to have been pseudo Nazisti. Also, the original Hamas charter had a lot of blatant Nazi ideology in it.
This was a reality the US as a matter of realpolitik actually suppressed and ignored, as it would have made it much harder to create Pax American if they had to admit they were working with and supporting actual pseudo Nazis to do so.
Jeffrey Herf is an acclaimed history professor who has studied and written books on this subject.
Comparing to the Holocaust is something I do often (and many things can and were worse than it).
That's about dropping a purported sacrality of the Holocaust as the "most evil thing that ever happened" , which it wasn't.
Nothing to do with randomly using the Nazi label, or much worse, calling Jews nazist ffs, because FOR THE JEWS the Holocaust was indeed the worst thing that ever happened.
kinda curious why we are even on this subject. I certainly didnt call anyone a Nazi recently.
I still want someone to explain what was the death toll point where we definitely hit genocide this time around. There was obviously a moment. 10k civilians? Was that the moment? I'm just trying to catalogue it for every past 10k death toll and every future one. Otherwise it's hard for me to tell the difference between war and genocide. But particularly in the war where the terrorist organization launches attacks from civilian infrastructur
It can't be an absolute number, it must be a significant % of a group, double digit at a very minimum to even start discussing the possibility of genocide.
The aim of the actions must be the destruction of a group, in order for it to be genocide.
Israel should have killed 300k in Gaza to even open the doors to the possibility there was a genocidal intent. Can't be genocide definitionally if you could have killed more civilians but you restrained yourself at any point for example , and Israel killed very little civilians as a ratio compared to normal urban warzone, given more than 10k of those 33k were hamas
I think there is a lot of protesting too much going on from the genocide supporters
kinda curious why we are even on this subject. I certainly didnt call anyone a Nazi recently.
Putin does to justify the Ukrainian invasion, Zelensky is a Jew who Putin calls a nazi.
Anyone who isn't completely against Putin because of this, with no if, no buts, endorses that, including you.
And yes the two things (that actual attempted genocide of Ukrainians, and the proper Israel reaction to a terrorist attack) are linked very well
Comparing to the Holocaust is something I do often (and many things can and were worse than it).
That's about dropping a purported sacrality of the Holocaust as the "most evil thing that ever happened" , which it wasn't.
Nothing to do with randomly using the Nazi label, or much worse, calling Jews nazist ffs, because FOR THE JEWS the Holocaust was indeed the worst thing that ever happened.
Actually I think you can make an argument the Romans destroying the actual Jewish kingdoms and forcing the diaspora was a pretty big deal. But in a way, you can argue that was probably the seminal event that made the Jewish people what they are. Without that, the Jews probably end being being just another backwards Middle Eastern theocratic tribe, like the Houthis.
I still want someone to explain what was the death toll point where we definitely hit genocide this time around. There was obviously a moment. 10k civilians? Was that the moment? I'm just trying to catalogue it for every past 10k death toll and every future one. Otherwise it's hard for me to tell the difference between war and genocide. But particularly in the war where the terrorist organization launches attacks from civilian infrastructur
It was sometime between when they assassinated their third and their fourth Gazan grandmother I'm pretty sure. It doesn't take too many.
It's obvious why people find the 'nazi' language inflammatory but it's 2023 and WWII ended almost 70 years ago. Semantic drift happens a lot faster than that. Nazi nowadays just means 'people doing bad stuff especially if it involves taking rights (or life) away from other people". So Victor's use of 'nazi' within that context is perfectly acceptable.
You guys will just have to deal with it.
You now suck at both math and grammar
It's also not acceptable
Dustbox by your logic
Slave owners used to call slaves the n word. That was over 150 years ago so it's okay to call people that today
It was sometime between when they assassinated their third and their fourth Gazan grandmother I'm pretty sure. It doesn't take too many.
it was clear before that.
but what I dont get from these people is why they think we need to wait for it to become a genocide before it stops. Lucium put out the number of 300k dead. Id argue it should be stopped before then but thats just me and I am in the minority of this thread in that I think Palestinians are actual people with rights.
Dustbox by your logic
Slave owners used to call slaves the n word. That was over 150 years ago so it's okay to call people that today
That's not the logic I'm using.
I can be bad at math (I'm not bad at grammar)-- but you're bad at logic/reading comprehension.
If the N-word evolved over 150 years to mean something like "my homey" (oh wait it has)-- then it would be acceptable to use it.
But it still mostly hasn't done that. 'Nazi' though has drifted further and faster.
There are two different n words that mean two different things, maybe 3 different things
There have been japanese Nazis, Italian Nazis, French Nazis, and German nazis.
China is doing a genocide rn, doesn’t mean they are nazis. Doesn’t mean they aren’t.
US is doing a genocide against native Americans and African Americans
The US def has nazis as well
It can't be an absolute number, it must be a significant % of a group, double digit at a very minimum to even start discussing the possibility of genocide.
The aim of the actions must be the destruction of a group, in order for it to be genocide.
Israel should have killed 300k in Gaza to even open the doors to the possibility there was a genocidal intent. Can't be genocide definitionally if you could have killed more civilians but you restra
And is Genocide by geography or by genetics? Like the Palestinians in the West Bank count, or don't count in this total?
No because they don't call the Chinese government nazist, nor the Burma government.
Nor they ever called the Utu nazists for their Tutsi genocide.
Nazism isn't only a genocidal propensity, it REQUIRES COMPLETE ANTISEMITISM so it's impossible for any jew to be a Nazi, or Nazi like, or even vaguely Nazi unless he suicides himself while trying to kill other Jews.
Genocide is a very common event in world history, and even if you mistakenly think k
It can't be an absolute number, it must be a significant % of a group, double digit at a very minimum to even start discussing the possibility of genocide.
The aim of the actions must be the destruction of a group, in order for it to be genocide.
Israel should have killed 300k in Gaza to even open the doors to the possibility there was a genocidal intent. Can't be genocide definitionally if you could have killed more civilians but you restra
This was not the definition that academics reached when defining the word genocide. Please stop taking your ignorant opinion and passing it off as fact.
idk what to tell you here, it's quite easy to look up the legal and colloquial definitions of ordinary words like genocide.
In other news, IDF is using civilian infrastructure for military ends. Obv that's unacceptable when Hamas does it, but Israel has the right.
idk what to tell you here, it's quite easy to look up the legal and colloquial definitions of ordinary words like genocide.
In other news, IDF is using civilian infrastructure for military ends. Obv that's unacceptable when Hamas does it, but Israel has the right.
Did you link the wrong article? That article says Israel is targeting civilian infrastructure that Hamas is allegedly using for military ends. Whether you think Israel's targeting this infrastructure is acceptable is going to depend on whether you believe the civilian infrastructure is actually being used for military reasons (most antisemites just wont believe this, regardless of evidence), and whether you think that in turn makes it an acceptable target.
