Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
So you think Ukraine has a right to get back Donbass and Crimea in full? And that the international community has a fundamental moral duty to achieve that, and if Russia disagrees we have the moral authority to enforce it with military might?
You called them warmongers for not submitting to those terms. You quote Russian propaganda memes such as "to the last Ukrainian" when their not submitting to those terms get brought up. They attempted to negotiate and Russia insisted on these terms yet you still bring it up as proof that you're some peace loving non-lib. I guess I'm missing why you keep bringing it up if you don't think Ukraine should have signed it.
If what you actually believe is that they should have negotiated for better terms (which they tried to do) and since Russia refused to budge that Ukraine should not have signed such a crippling (and illegal) ultimatum which guarantees a future invasion in which Ukraine could not possibly defend themselves then you agree with the sane people that Ukraine should continue to fight and that's great! We're in agreement.
we did not see any negotiations.
dont you think that stinks?
maybe I missed that. where are the transcripts?
where are the conditions?
...there arent any, which is bs.
You called them warmongers for not submitting to those terms. You quote Russian propaganda memes such as "to the last Ukrainian" when their not submitting to those terms get brought up. They attempted to negotiate and Russia insisted on these terms yet you still bring it up as proof that you're some peace loving non-lib. I guess I'm missing why you keep bringing it up if you don't think Ukraine should have signed it.
If what you actually bel
you missed the point I was trying to tell you about.
ukraine was at a tipping point, pro russia and anti russia.
it was divided, still is, then bla bla ... all hell broke lose.
well, duh.
You called them warmongers for not submitting to those terms. You quote Russian propaganda memes such as "to the last Ukrainian" when their not submitting to those terms get brought up. They attempted to negotiate and Russia insisted on these terms yet you still bring it up as proof that you're some peace loving non-lib. I guess I'm missing why you keep bringing it up if you don't think Ukraine should have signed it.
If what you actually bel
it was quite obv to the last Ukrainian before I ever read a single piece of Russian propaganda.
yeah, I was about to say that too.
it all stinks to heaven! forced fight till death, murder of people (political opponents) even outside of ukraine, no transcripts of negotiations,
thats the signature of a terror regime right there.
The "divide" between pro-Russia and pro-Ukraine was nowhere close to equal as we saw. It was, and still is, overwhelmingly Ukrainian. At the time that Yanukovich was thrown out of office 100% of parliament voted to throw him out and undo his dictatorial coercion of their supreme court. That should tell you how deep the divide was.
Zelenskyy was not about to lose since he did not plan to run again, and elections were two years off when Russia invaded.
Victor: you dodged the majority of the post. Good job on coming up with a Russian meme devaluing Ukrainian life before it became a meme though, I'm sure Putin would be really proud!
please anyone, confirm
I wish we had a ukrainian here.
Was Zele losing support before 2014? was he about to lose next elections?
didnt the majority of ukranians want to go pro russia or at least no
more anti russia?
I dont think ukrainans wanted war.
it was broke and corrupt and had no jobs. it was fed up with corruption and zele. but the last thing they wanted is war with russia.
Zele was debasing himself on crappy TV shows in 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servant_of...)
in 2019 he won the presidency on a ticket of making peace in the Donbass. subsequently, the far right were like nah bro, dont stab us in the back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_to_capi...! and now here we are.
please anyone, confirm
I wish we had a ukrainian here.
Was Zele losing support before 2014? was he about to lose next elections?
didnt the majority of ukranians want to go pro russia or at least no
more anti russia?
It's pretty clear that Zelenskyy gained support after 2014 since he ran in 2019 and won with over 70% of the vote.
I dont think ukrainans wanted war.
it was broke and corrupt and had no jobs. it was fed up with corruption and zele. but the last thing they wanted is war with russia.
Ukrainians did not want war. It's unfortunate that Russia invaded them and left them with no choice.
"debasing" lol. Dude you are so transparent.
We've been over No to Capitulation. Your conspiracy theory does not hold water. When it became clear what would need to happen Zelenskyy had something like 10% approval to go through with the plan since it was essentially just handing Putin territory. If you want to say it was the "far right" then just admit you're saying that 90% of Ukraine is the "far right".
Meanwhile to still not clarify your view on the ultimatum since it completely debases your position. Keep using peace as a euphemism for genocide.
It's pretty clear that Zelenskyy gained support after 2014 since he ran in 2019 and won with over 70% of the vote.
lol
well of course, when you get rid of opponents, the pro russians, or even murdered them, then you get 70%, actually you should get 100% but that would have been too obvious.
you said you knew someone thats russian in ukraine, right?
what happened to them? were they forced to leave?
if they were attacked and forced to leave they couldnt vote.
pro russians are either dead or were forced to leave,
so they couldnt vote anymore.
Zele was debasing himself on crappy TV shows in 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servant_of...)
in 2019 he won the presidency on a ticket of making peace in the Donbass. subsequently, the far right were like nah bro, dont stab us in the back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_to_capi...! and now here we are.
lol
Poroshenko was his main opponent. There were 39 candidates in total, including ones sympathetic to Russia.
Which candidates do you believe were murdered? I can't find anything about that.
My Russian friends would not have been allowed to vote in Ukrainian elections because by being Russian they were not Ukrainian...
They were also in crimea which was annexed illegally by Russia and not allowed in Ukrainian elections.
There was no mass execution of pro Russians, that's ridiculous. There was no attempt to prevent pro Russian Ukrainian from Ukrainians. You can read about this in the OSCE report confirming it was a fair and free election.
Oh ok,
I mean after the invasion, or between 2014 and now.
I linked you one recently,
happened in moscow like a couple days ago.
of course they murder politicans all the time left and right, even in moscow
"Kyiv said it orchestrated the assassination of a pro-Kremlin Ukrainian politician on Wednesday after the body of the ex-lawmaker who had defected to Russia was found outside Moscow." https://www.cbsnews.com/news/illia-kyva-...
that happened like yesterday.
Moscow is in Russia, not Ukraine.
It’s what you do to protect the women , the children and the rich
He did not run in the 2019 election, but he could have if he wished to.
This article is dated December 6 2023, which is well past the 2019 election and also after the war began. If he believed there was no case against him for treason then he should have stayed in Ukraine and not fled.
This is a very different situation from your claims that politicians were murdered so they could not run against Zelenskyy in 2019.
Oh cmon man, he had no chance staying.
I meant political opposition.
I never said anything else. there isnt any left of those.
at least not in areas controlled by ukraine.
yes so not yesterday, 3 month ago, but it gives you an idea.
There's a lot of political opposition left, but yes Ukraine does go after people who commit treason.
When Russia invaded things changed a lot...
Have we moved on from your claims that Ukrainians mass executed pro Russians before the war in order to not allow them to vote as well as your claim that pro-Russian candidates were not allowed to run? Because what you're discussing now is a completely different topic.
no, they do that and similar stuff since 2014, at least.
no, we are not. in 2014 there was war, and ever since after.
OK, so find some of these mass executions and assassinations of pro-Russian politicians who didn't commit treason between 2014 and 2019 instead of one after both the full scale invasion and the election in question.
