Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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"unfortunate event"
no dawg, it was a political assassination on innocent aid workers to further a genocide
"unfortunate event"
no dawg, it was a political assassination on innocent aid workers to further a genocide
Why don't we see what it was?
You know, the outcome of an investigation by a democratic country that does care about accidentally killing foreign nationals.
In a place with as many moving parts mid-conflict, usually the simplest answer is "we messed up". In the history of war you'll find endless examples of mistakes, some that killed 4 figures or more. So let's see what they find.
We don't have to jump straight to fake mass grave stories, right Vic?
nothing fake about those stories
we already saw what it was. we dont need the genocidal Israeli gov to tell us what to think.
we know they bombed the 3 cars deliberately one after another to ensure that no one survived.
you think it was an oopsie daisy. I think it was to intentionally further a famine.
my reasons are based on evidence. yours are based on Supremacy and racism.
So they own it, they look into what happened (with a formal investigation), they liaise with the countries the volunteers came from.
Have you seen Hamas do this ONCE when they make a mistake? Even once?
I think the targeted killing of aid workers is a more central point than this hasbara deflection.
A guy on Twitter adds: "I know it’s obvious but if victims had not had foreign passports & not worked for famous chef, no one would have known of their deaths, Israel would not have said a word or simply claimed that they were terrorists (& counted them as such!) & there would have been no investigation"
So where's the investigation of the hundreds of UNRWA killings?
Israel defenders:
What if by some miracle Iran and Russia wanted to host a new round of negotiations to hammer out a 2 state solution. Would you be open to it with Saudi Arabia involved but no one from the west? Seems like the regional powers need to work this out although they seem to enjoy the status quo.
I think the US would definitely need to be involved at some level, or at least give its blessing. Given how unlikely hypothetical peace negotiations are to actually work, I doubt Israel is trying to burn any bridges with the US over them.
Truthfully I dont think Israel is interested in any 2 state solution where Palestinian militants and Hezbollah start firing more rockets into Israel before the ink is dry, which is how all the other peace negotiations have gone. As I have said before, a fundamental problem with even a theoretical peace movement with a theoretical good faith Palestinian govt, is militants will always hold veto power; as the people support them. The day we start hearing stories about Palestinian mobs dragging Hamas and PIJ fighters through the streets (as opposed to Israel 'collaborators') is the day I think there is even a possible foundation for peace.
guys the (p)oopsie was about the presence (or lack thereof) of Hamas people in those targeted vehicles.
because if there were any, they would have been a fair target.
so the "targeting" itself cannot be used to claim it was an assassination of aid workers.
they would have been the collateral damage in the assassination of members of Hamas.
now, you can claim Israel is lying on purpose and they never had any reason to believe Hamas people joined the convoy. Or you can believe the obviously reasonable idea that they though Hamas people were in (because they were at some point) but they were mistaken in believing they were still in when they hit the targets.
apparently they actually waited for the aid to reach destination before hitting from what I gather, problem is the Hamas people went down with the aid :-(.
ofc as usually these are more deaths caused by Hamas
no Hamas people were killed
yes which is why it was a **** up.
now again, is your take that Hamas had never anything to do with that convoy, and that Israel targeted it anyway just because they want to kill aid workers?
I guess it is.
normal people instead realize they thought they were targeting a convoy that included Hamas people.
so if you believe that, it's about "is it proper to attack aid convoys which give shelter and help to Hamas people"? here opinions can vary, I know yours, you know mine.
I think the US would definitely need to be involved at some level, or at least give its blessing. Given how unlikely hypothetical peace negotiations are to actually work, I doubt Israel is trying to burn any bridges with the US over them.
Truthfully I dont think Israel is interested in any 2 state solution where Palestinian militants and Hezbollah start firing more rockets into Israel before the ink is dry, which is how all the other pe
Well it's quite a stretch for normal citizens to start hunting down Hamas but I guess equal to my hypothetical. Think BGP was probably right early on that like it or not, Hamas will need to be part of any negotiations. They're the only ones that have any chance to police local militants to not sabotage the peace process but the whole not recognizing Israel is a bit of a sticking point.
yes which is why it was a **** up.
now again, is your take that Hamas had never anything to do with that convoy, and that Israel targeted it anyway just because they want to kill aid workers?
I guess it is.
normal people instead realize they thought they were targeting a convoy that included Hamas people.
so if you believe that, it's about "is it proper to attack aid convoys which give shelter and help to Hamas people"? here opinions can vary,
The problem is we see more and more of these . When your dropping 2000LB bombs you tend to take out a lot of innocent folks
Of course Biden approved more of these bombs get sent over to Israel .
I am on the side of Israel but damn they are killing a lot of innocent folks.
yes which is why it was a **** up.
now again, is your take that Hamas had never anything to do with that convoy, and that Israel targeted it anyway just because they want to kill aid workers?
I guess it is.
normal people instead realize they thought they were targeting a convoy that included Hamas people.
so if you believe that, it's about "is it proper to attack aid convoys which give shelter and help to Hamas people"? here opinions can vary,
first off, there was has been no evidence shown that anyone from Hamas was part of the convoy.
secondly, the clearly had no visual evidence that Hamas was in any of the 3 cars bc well, no one from Hamas died.
thirdly, I dont care if Sinwar himself was in the car, its still wrong.
At this moment it's not very important whether Israel intentionally fired at what they knew was an aid convoy (unlikely imo) or whether they intentionally fired at what they thought wasn't an aid convoy but ended up being one.
Whether due to incompetence or maliciousness, NGOs aren't going to keep sending workers into areas if notifying Israel doesn't guarantee their safety. This isn't the first instance either. The food situation is bad enough that Israel needs to figure out a solution immediately. I hope justice is had obviously, but that's a secondary concern.
Unfortunately I don't think they have it in them to fix their incompetence, or to just start firing when a mistake could happen since they realize they're making way too many mistakes.
The problem is we see more and more of these . When your dropping 2000LB bombs you tend to take out a lot of innocent folks
Of course Biden approved more of these bombs get sent over to Israel .
I am on the side of Israel but damn they are killing a lot of innocent folks.
it wasnt a 2000 lb bomb. it was 3! deliberate targeted precision strikes from drones over the course of 2.5km.
At this moment it's not very important whether Israel intentionally fired at what they knew was an aid convoy (unlikely imo) or whether they intentionally fired at what they thought wasn't an aid convoy but ended up being one.
Whether due to incompetence or maliciousness, NGOs aren't going to keep sending workers into areas if notifying Israel doesn't guarantee their safety. This isn't the first instance either. The food situation is bad eno
they knew it was an aid convoy as they were in communication with it
At this moment it's not very important whether Israel intentionally fired at what they knew was an aid convoy (unlikely imo) or whether they intentionally fired at what they thought wasn't an aid convoy but ended up being one.
Sorry, what? Of course it's important whether or not the IDF is deliberately targeting aid workers.
it wasnt a 2000 lb bomb. it was 3! deliberate targeted precision strikes from drones over the course of 2.5km.
Oh I understand this incident wasnt a 2000lb bomb but many of the other incidents are and why is Biden sending these 2000 ln bombs . He is also sending the 500lb ones.
If he truly cared he would not send those
Oh your saying they used 3 of the 2000lb bombs?
At this moment it's not very important whether Israel intentionally fired at what they knew was an aid convoy (unlikely imo) or whether they intentionally fired at what they thought wasn't an aid convoy but ended up being one.
Whether due to incompetence or maliciousness, NGOs aren't going to keep sending workers into areas if notifying Israel doesn't guarantee their safety. This isn't the first instance either. The food situation is bad eno
no I think its pretty damn important that Israel murdered 7 foreign aid workers intentionally.
I cant imagine the level of brainwashing and delusion or simple lack of curiosity to investigate that would lead someone to think they didnt know this was the WCK convoy.
confirmed by thinking about it. didnt do any research. didnt read any articles. didnt look into the situation at all.
they bombed them 3 times over the course of 2.5km. the cars were clearly marked. the temporary survivors were clearly marked. the cars were leaving the warehouse. the WCK was in contact with the IDF.
the level of delusion is astounding.
Unconfirmed by thinking about it for a half second. Take a look outside at 11pm and tell me what markings you see from miles away.
pro-Israeli sources are saying the IDF thought an Hamas terrorist was in the convoy, they knew of the convoy, they knew the route of the convoy because it was agreed with them, and they actually waited until the convoy delivered the aid afaik.
I am not sure why bluegrass is unconvinced, this isn't the first time they attack aid convoys, and in the past they did kill Hamas people by doing so.
hes not convinced bc this act was so beyond the pale that it doesnt register in his head that his team could ever do something like this.
maybe one day he will get to the "are we the baddies?" moment but I wouldnt bet on it.
