Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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yes. the german girl with pretzels or brats in her hair or whatever thought they were going to get a new farm in poland or whatever. and they dd for a few years! that was the sprintime for Hitler! (and Germany).
right now, its springtime for Bibi and Israel. but you know, winter is coming or something. maybe we can get a good satire about how great things are for Israel right now. I am not sure what food item they will put in their hai
Well, part of southern Israel has been abandoned after many of the people living there were massacred, and 20,000 rockets fired at them, and the northern border has had to be abandoned because of Hezbollah attacks, and drones are constantly coming at them from all directions from Iranian proxies.
You live in this bizarre fictional reality where Israel isn't surrounded by Islamists constantly attacking them for religious reasons. A sane person could argue Israel isn't yet under an existential threat that would justify this sort of response; but you are not sane and live in a reality where it is not happening at all. It is definitely not spring time in Israel, or for any Jews anywhere in the world.
Right or wrong, it looks like my analysis over the last 5 months has been correct. October 7th seemed to be a turning point, and Israel does not seem willing to respond proportionately to repeated provocations by its Islamist neighbors anymore.
The Islamists of course could stop, and make peace, and Israel's disproportionate response would stop too. But it seems the Islamists sincerely believe that if they keep up long enough the rocks and the trees will start talking and help them kill all the Jews, and so they persevere. And maybe they are correct. A 35,000/1,500 death toll ratio still has the Islamists winning eventually by attrition, as their numbers are so much astronomically higher.
The most recent poll said 75% of Palestinians are still on board with October 7th and the current resistance.
Right or wrong, it looks like my analysis over the last 5 months has been correct. October 7th seemed to be a turning point, and Israel does not seem willing to respond proportionately to repeated provocations by its Islamist neighbors anymore.
The Islamists of course could stop, and make peace, and Israel's disproportionate response would stop too. But it seems the Islamists sincerely believe that if they keep up long enough the rocks a
For the first time in several generations, Israelis saw what the end of Israel could look like. It's why there's so much unity there now across political spectrums. It's how you get the Haredim rules changed. The world doesn't get it and that's fine. But Israel realizes now they made a mistake just playing defence. Bibi's biggest failure.
On the flipside, Hamas has never been more emboldened. They genuinely see a path forward. Not in this generation. But in the ones that follow. That's the madness of the whole thing. They can sacrifice it all for the idea, and just keep the meatgrinder going as long as they see "progress". To them this has been definite progress.
I think the anti-semite parts of the arab world are simply emboldened by the fact that people like victor are a growing number, so they are betting it all on the west actually giving up on israel.
The strategy is abhorrently evil, every dead palestinian today is dead exclusively because of Hamas actions after all, but even if it's obviously true that all the tragedy in gaza is only, and exclusively, hamas responsibility, radical leftism embraces victor narrative in the west and as everything radical leftism touches, it causes death and suffering.
This is when decent people in the west (ie the non radical leftists) should go allin in support of israel making it very clear, and credible, to antisemites in the arab world, that we won't be moved by their pallywood videos or even by the actual suffering of people in gaza or elsewhere, because supporting israel is more important to us.
I think the anti-semite parts of the arab world are simply emboldened by the fact that people like victor are a growing number, so they are betting it all on the west actually giving up on israel.
The strategy is abhorrently evil, every dead palestinian today is dead exclusively because of Hamas actions after all, but even if it's obviously true that all the tragedy in gaza is only, and exclusively, hamas responsibility, radical leftism embr
Yeah this is correct.
The long game has Europe and the USA eventually totally leaving Israel to fend for itself.
Of course Israel is only the first one to go in this situation. But nobody will realize that one till it's too late.
The better 50 year plan is beat Hamas, beat Hezbollah, normalize across the middle east, and everyone makes Iran their problem. On a 50 year timeline, that is the least total deaths.
History wasn't your strong subject I'm guessing.
Step 1 is to evacuate the civilian population of Rafah before they go after Philadelpi and the rest of what's waiting underground. If they can succeed in moving all those people, there's some reason for "optimism". Pretty big air quotes there because it's still the best case among a series of worst cases. Now that the IDF has figured out tunnel warfare, I do think we can expect less dead than
Pretty sure Palestinians don’t have an army which makes them all civilians . Are you saying Hamas is an army?
If they keep acting like Germany and try to turn this into a war with Lebanon, Syria, and Iran then I think they are cooked.
and really, I dont think they can get away with this genocide. they will forever be a pariah country.
Of course they will get away with it. This is really showing your naivety. Western countries get away with everything. Nobody will do ****. This is the real world, posturing isn’t worth anything. For people to respond, lives must be lost and most governments don’t want to do that.
Pretty sure Palestinians don’t have an army which makes them all civilians . Are you saying Hamas is an army?
We literally know it to be. That isn't even a discussion point.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/poli...
They are literally organized and run as an army. It's ridiculously insulting to THEM to call them less.
Nobody questions if the The Army of the Republic of Vietnam was an army. It's ridiculous to question it here.
Suffering large losses to a better army doesn't make you not an army. That's not the definition. The Polish had an army that lost in a month in WW2. Still an army.
Of course they will get away with it. This is really showing your naivety. Western countries get away with everything. Nobody will do ****. This is the real world, posturing isn’t worth anything. For people to respond, lives must be lost and most governments don’t want to do that.
well I dont think they are gonna put Bibi and the rest of the butchers in jail or anything. but in time, this Zionist project will end bc the entire world now despises Israel. Ilan Pappe agrees at least, or really I take my cues from him on this.
just look at the genocidal rhetoric from people like rafki who now want to murder Lebanese and Iranians. the world is seeing what type of psychopaths we are dealing with.
We literally know it to be. That isn't even a discussion point.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/poli...
They are literally organized and run as an army. It's ridiculously insulting to THEM to call them less.
Nobody questions if the The Army of the Republic of Vietnam was an army. It's ridiculous to question it here.
Suffering large losses to a better army doesn't make you not an army. That's not the definition.
So how do you think Israel should be punished for its war crimes against the military of Palestine?
Yeah this is correct.
The long game has Europe and the USA eventually totally leaving Israel to fend for itself.
Of course Israel is only the first one to go in this situation. But nobody will realize that one till it's too late.
The better 50 year plan is beat Hamas, beat Hezbollah, normalize across the middle east, and everyone makes Iran their problem. On a 50 year timeline, that is the least total deaths.
Iran has been much more secular and "Western" in the past and it is getting more that way in the present and, if people in the West wouldn't be so invested in Iran being an enemy, perhaps that would continue.
iran's official position is that israel should be eliminated. let me know when that changes.
We literally know it to be. That isn't even a discussion point.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/poli...
They are literally organized and run as an army. It's ridiculously insulting to THEM to call them less.
Nobody questions if the The Army of the Republic of Vietnam was an army. It's ridiculous to question it here.
Suffering large losses to a better army doesn't make you not an army. That's not the definition.
Reminds me of the post where Kelhus said people in the Arab press have propaganda that Hamas is scoring huge victories. People supporting the Israeli campaign have an interest in pushing the same false narrative. It makes their bombing seem more justified. 256 people in the Israeli military have been killed since 10/7 and, as you pointed out, 20% of them from friendly fire. I don't think Hamas has killed any Israeli civilians since 10/7 and two have been killed by missile fire from Lebanon.
You can call two guys with guns an Army if you want, but wherever you draw the line is just semantics. No one called Al Queda an Army, not because of anything to do with their command structure or weapons, but because, for propaganda purposes it was important that they were illegitimate. People supporting the Israeli campaign in Gaza need the Hamas fighters to be legitimate, otherwise they should be saving Gazans from Hamas rather than being at war with Gaza.
"We'll let all the civilians evacuate Rafah and then bomb until Hamas goes away" sounds foolproof, let's hope everyone in Hamas remembers to wear their nametag so we know who's who.
Iran has been much more secular and "Western" in the past and it is getting more that way in the present and, if people in the West wouldn't be so invested in Iran being an enemy, perhaps that would continue.
I have to find a way to save this to bump it for you. This one will age really well.
People supporting the Israeli campaign in Gaza need the Hamas fighters to be legitimate, otherwise they should be saving Gazans from Hamas rather than being at war with Gaza.
Hamas is widely supported in Gaza, and more generally in the entire Muslim world. They are supported much more by their population and fellow religionists than any leadership in the Western world. Wrap your mind around that. Hamas is more popular than ANY Western leader or party.
They are definitely legitimate.
Right or wrong, it looks like my analysis over the last 5 months has been correct. October 7th seemed to be a turning point, and Israel does not seem willing to respond proportionately to repeated provocations by its Islamist neighbors anymore.
The Islamists of course could stop, and make peace, and Israel's disproportionate response would stop too. But it seems the Islamists sincerely believe that if they keep up long enough the rocks a
Or the simple anlaysis that netanyahu had no other option for his personal survival combined with his natural inclinations.
A most dangerous combination that easily morphes into your turning point. Also makes escalation far too likely. Netanyahu probably can't stop so he must be stopped by domestic politcs or 'an act of god'.
