Israel/Palestine thread

they do not control Hamas

What do you believe the war crimes against Hamas specifically are?

PAY THE NOT

how popular were they on Oct 6th?

I think they got a lot more popular after Israel and the USA decided to do genocide and they are the only resistance to it.

I really don't know what you mean there. People here are just such bad readers I guess. Do you understand what I was saying? Read my entire post and pretend you are taking an SAT or something and tell me what I was predicting.

by Victor P

He's asking about stuff done to Hamas. So that would be akin to killing captured soldiers, use of illegal weapons, that sort of stuff.

What you're saying is nonsense. And it didn't work in the 30's either, when it was tried.

"leave them alone" isn't a strategy.

Actually Israel largely left Hamas alone, if you want a real recent example of this error.

The people seem to be getting more secular, but this isn't being seen in their leadership, foreign policy, or military adventurism.

It seems your strategy is that if the West just ignores Iran's provocations, especially as it pertains towards destabilizing the Arab world, long enough and doesn't really respond than eventually they will be organically replaced with something better. But the more we resist their provocations the more there may be a circle the wagons response.

It actually seems like this has been the general policy of the US the last decade or so, with the exception of Trump's regime. And it may actually be the best strategy.

But it is a very fragile strategy because it is very easy for right wing populists in countries such as Israel and the US to rile up their populations against Iranian provocation. When you can frame yourself as being attacked by an "other," for behavioral psychology reasons it is always easy to get people on board with favoring an aggressive counter response, much more so than more realpolitik pragmatic solutions.

Thank you.

Iran is the single biggest hornet's nest in the region. And it isn't "going away".

Btw the protests in Iran are like 3 years old. That was 21-21. They turned off the internet and blackbagged their own people. This isn't getting better. It's just getting more oppressive.

they do all that stuff. and they love to torture.

They were probably still more popular than any Western regime on October 6th, and their big popularity bump actually occurred on October 8th. Jihad against the Jews is what the people want (Palestinians, and more generally hundreds of millions of fellow religionist around the world) and October 7th was just Hamas enacting their will.

I know liberals don't want to accept this, and maybe for realpolitik reasons the crisis would be easier to navigate if we just pretend it isn't true (like throughout the 20th century the US pretending that Arab nationalism wasn't very sympathetic to Nazi ideations, especially as it pertains to a Jewish Communist conspiracies), but it is the actual truth.

Comparing everything to Hitler is stupid. Tons of repressive and adversarial societies have changed and become more liberal and Western through engagement.

I can think of one society that has only gotten worse

I'm guilty of being hostile and just telling people what they think and being unfair about it because I don't like them, so I get it.

But there's nothing I've ever said that makes it seem like that. You have no idea what my "strategy" is, as if there's some reason I'm compelled to have a strategy on Iran or need to spell something out to suggest that war doesn't make things right.

Israel has gotten a lot worse and its dependence on the West has not done it any favors in that regard. The way this happened isn't really similar to what the situation is with Iran, but the similarity is that war makes societies worse.

I'm actually not talking about Hitler. I am talking about Chamberlain and his predecessors, who made ridiculous errors that were entirely preventable.

I actually generally agree the most pragmatic response to Islamism might be mostly ignoring it, even if that means letting stuff like October 7th slide. But for behavioral psychology reasons I dont think it will work. It is just too easy to get people to want to respond.

The same as since the 1940s it is pretty obvious the belligerent nationalist/Islamist movements in the Middle East have been mostly disastrous, but for psychological reasons most people in this region still think it was a correct response to Western imperialism.

Oct 7 had nothing to do with Islam. you keep a group captive and they will do everything for their rights.

the problem is that in your Supremacist culture, you feel that you should own the Palestinians.

Probably a predictable outcome from 80 years of war with Nazi sympathizers and Islamists.

still with the human shields bullshit after its been definitively shown that Israel targets the civilians. Israel prefers to murder the civilians.

a long time ago Hamas even said, we stay away from civilians bc that is who Israel kills.

not to mention, the whole point of a human shield is to you know, but a shield. it does no good when the genocidal Israelis prefer to gleefully target the children.

every accusation is a confession

Obviously, but you're implying that the result of engaging with Iran (or similar) is Hitler (or similar).

And the predecessors of Chamberlain did not engage with Germany, they heavily sanctioned it. The problems with the Treaty of Versailles were not that it was too engaging with Germany.

Id imagine that israel will continue to be the pariah country for a long time but iran cant do **** and they know that no matter how much more irate they get.

This is the olds in israel running the show and wanting to clean house before they die off.