Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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wacky place
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023...
count me as being in favour of the ceasefire, and then immediately breaking it (i'm talking within 60 seconds) of securing the safety of the 40th hostage
This is not the proper Hasbara bro
Also I just want to point out IDF firing people for accidentally killing civilians vs. Hamas worshipping people for intentionally killing civilians is one of the core differences between the two parties to this conflict.
IDF may be the only organization in the world where people demand they get a pat on the back for not deliberately murdering toddlers (not that they aren't still killing oodles of kids, mind you). Congrats on being a more moral organization than Hamas?
wacky place
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023...
count me as being in favour of the ceasefire, and then immediately breaking it (i'm talking within 60 seconds) of securing the safety of the 40th hostage
IDF may be the only organization in the world where people demand they get a pat on the back for not deliberately murdering toddlers (not that they aren't still killing oodles of kids, mind you). Congrats on being a more moral organization than Hamas?
Hamas is infinitely more moral than I OF lol.
Also I just want to point out IDF firing people for accidentally killing civilians vs. Hamas worshipping people for intentionally killing civilians is one of the core differences between the two parties to this conflict.
Bibi seems to be doing his best to erase that difference but it's still there, for now.
It is actually worse than this. They are financially compensated for murdering Jewish civilians, and if they are "martyred" while doing so their families are compensated.
The Israelis have historically done that type deal, releasing stupendous numbers of apparent terrorists for just one hostage, which is why Hamas and other terrorist orgs keep taking hostages -- the Israelis make it worth their while and offer every incentive for them to carry on hostage-taking. This is probably not the time for yet another deal on those lines (and it was always a terrible and obviously self-defeating idea), but with the Isr
I am pretty sure they can make the deal terms outrageous in favor of Hamas and Hamas still has to say no, because I doubt 40 hostages are still alive. I doubt Hamas could even come up with 40 bodies. However, if this is true then all the negotiators on every side surely know this. So it is all Kabuki theatre.
I am pretty sure they can make the deal terms outrageous in favor of Hamas and Hamas still has to say no, because I doubt 40 hostages are still alive. I doubt Hamas could even come up with 40 bodies. However, if this is true then all the negotiators on every side surely know this. So it is all Kabuki theatre.
Too much is at stake to stop trying even if everyone involved knows the zone of possible agreement is currently non existent.
At this point it’s about signaling to and influencing the powers that be, if any exists, to change the positions of negotiating parties.
Sinwar wants to make it clear they will fight to the absolute death and give zero shits about Gazans to force Bibi out and get Israelis to give up the farm.
Bibi wants to make it clear Hamas cannot exist as a military entity to force political wings of Hamas to take control back from Sinwar.
That's racialist
The level of error in this is just off the charts.
The IDF are infinitely more powerful and have infinitely bigger weapons. So as a result you see the outcomes you see. It's brutal and it's extreme.
But the IDF has 2 things:
1) Rules of engagement and actual outcomes for people who make mistakes in that regard. It's not perfect, but it EXISTS.
2) The IDF is truly everyone in Israel. It's everyone's sons and daughters. It's not like some meathead police offer that joins because he got picked on in highschool. It's the tough kids, but also the shy ones. It's the scientists and the nerds. It's the poets, musicians, and soft spoken religious boys. It's the surfers and soccer players. Everyone has to put on the uniform to try and defend the only Jewish nation on earth. And as a result, you don't have one kind of psycho as you imagine it Vic. It's a whole variety of people, many of them some of the most remarkable people on the planet. I know so many of them and they're all truly wonderful souls. And every one of them that puts on the uniform is doing it so save their own civilians. They are the shield.
If you believe everyone in the IDF is an evil monster, then you believe Jews are evil monsters. This is the only conclusion one can draw. Because the IDF is quite simply a sample of every manner of Jew.
Hamas on the other hand, is kill any Jew, any way possible. There is no Jew off limits. There is no method off limits. It's get them truly by any means necessary. And the slaughter is only prevented by the shield that is the IDF. Know who the shield is for Hamas? Their own.
The reformed to the orthodox have all pinned their yarmulkes back.
Instruments to sight jihad built in
Spoiler
I don’t think Hamas cares. They might even prefer Gaza destroyed as long as they remain the only ones with guns in Gaza.
Then they probably wouldn't care about a ceasefire either.
Gaza was relatively poor, but there used to be nice things too and there used to be Hamas leaders in Gaza who had nice things.
The level of error in this is just off the charts.
The IDF are infinitely more powerful and have infinitely bigger weapons. So as a result you see the outcomes you see. It's brutal and it's extreme.
But the IDF has 2 things:
1) Rules of engagement and actual outcomes for people who make mistakes in that regard. It's not perfect, but it EXISTS.
2) The IDF is truly everyone in Israel. It's everyone's sons and daughters. It's not like some meath
the only way a shield is a shield is if it actually shields. since all your special Israeli wonderful souls love to murder Palestinian children then they arent much of a shield.
I am not antisemitic and that is why I do not think Israel and the IOF are representative of Jews and their nature. just like I dont think there is anything genocidal to German nature even tho they are on like genocide number 4 of the last 120 years. if I am wrong then oh well, lol me I guess.
Computers, investment banks to rule the world
Marty Friedman lead electric guitar chosen peeps Goat
presumably they would if it were there sons daughters parents grandparents.
also, its not really analogous as they families of Hamas face certain death by targeting. Hamas doesnt kill hostages for the lols like Israel does.
Hamas cares about their family and friends and neighbors. to argue otherwise is racism meant to dehumanize them.
hamas isn't a race, just a terrorist organization (which deserves eradication, ie the killing of each and every one of its members).
they dehumanize themselves by being terrorists.
and if we were healthy societies we would go after everyone in our societies who favours Hamas as well.
Then they probably wouldn't care about a ceasefire either.
Gaza was relatively poor, but there used to be nice things too and there used to be Hamas leaders in Gaza who had nice things.
The Hamas leaders won't have trouble getting nice things as long as they hold the guns in Gaza. Iranians and Plastinean sympathizers (wittingly or not) will make sure of that.
