Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
you guys know that the Gazans did multiple non-violent movements? can you guess how they were received?
a few pages back 5 south was skeptical that Israeli snipers targeted children. during the march of return the snipers were so good that they had a policy of aiming at arms and legs to create cripples. before this recent genocide Gaza had one of the highest per capita handicapped populations due to this very recent event.
this was in response to a peaceful march. now, liberals will say that shows the restraint of the Israeli Army that they did not murder these kids. see? they let them live! and other liberals like Dun will say that this peaceful demonstration was the Palestinians behaving badly.
Your interpretation of their actions is disgusting unless you support their fight for existence
Israel is responding to an attack with inordinate force. If this was a court case , Palestine punched Israel in the face and broke some teeth, Israel shot Palestine in the arm and has a gun to their head.
Israel says it’s self defense. Courts say it’s attempted murder and kidnapping
Who is wrong?
If explaining the actions of the people you support to you disgusts you, then you should reassess the people you support, not attack me for informing you. Hamas's actions are disgusting, my interpretation of them is not. Hamas hoped to provoke a major reaction from Israel with their terrorist attack. Maybe it wasn't meant to be as severe as this, but they knew damn well that by conducting October 7 they were going to be directly responsible
they did not murder over a thousand innocent people even by Israel's own count. under international law they are allowed to engage in armed resistance and if you check the Israeli report of those killed, well under a thousand were civilians. they are allowed to kill soldiers.
and Hamas did not hope to provoke this response. this is the Orientalist racism that I have been talking about. they did not want their family and friends genocided by Israel. that you yourself think that was their goal shows how warped your mind is and how devoid of any humanity you possess.
This is what I said:
Hamas hoped to provoke a major reaction from Israel with their terrorist attack. Maybe it wasn't meant to be as severe as this, but they knew damn well that by conducting October 7 they were going to be directly responsible for a reprisal that would lead to the deaths of many Palestinians and the destructions of their homes. Even if they did not, they planned and murdered over a thousand innocent people. Your insistence that they have a str
Not this:
Almost 700 Israeli civilians killed in Hamas's terrorist attack. Feel free to replace the 1000 I said above and argue it.
you guys know that the Gazans did multiple non-violent movements? can you guess how they were received?
a few pages back 5 south was skeptical that Israeli snipers targeted children. during the march of return the snipers were so good that they had a policy of aiming at arms and legs to create cripples. before this recent genocide Gaza had one of the highest per capita handicapped populations due to this very recent event.
this was in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–2019_...
"groups consisting mainly of young men approached the fence and committed acts of violence directed towards the Israeli side.[24][25][26] Israeli officials said the demonstrations were used by Hamas as cover for launching attacks against Israel.[27]"
--I do appreciate that the Palestinians elect a foreign aligned terrorist group into power whose mandate is to destroy Israel and who constantly attacks Israel. And the Palestinians are outraged that Israel (and Egypt) responded with blockades/embargos. Whoever would have saw that coming?
Your interpretation of their actions is disgusting unless you support their fight for existence
I support their fight for existence.
Israel is responding to an attack with inordinate force.
I've said this multiple times.
Israel can be responding in an awful way and I can attack that as well as attack Hamas's terrorist act which killed almost 700 civilians. That is what is happening.
How do you expect Hamas to respond? Eventually these actions are one of their only choices
This is what I said:
Not this:
700 Israeli civilians killed in Hamas's terrorist attack. Feel free to replace the 1000 I said above and argue it.
you are blaming Hamas for the response. you are saying Hamas wanted the response. the response has been unequivocally genocidal.
now that we got our facts straight on the 700, we know that many of those were killed by Israelis themselves doing Hannibal. we also know that the Kibbutzes were armed and fighting back.
and finally, we know that if you join Hamas then you are always a target for Israel. so why should former IDF who are living in Kibbutzes meant to be forward defense bases with stocked armories and a very high rate of firearm ownership not be similar targets?
in short, why are Israelis allowed to return to be civilians whereas Hamas can never retire?
I support their fight for existence.
I've said this multiple times.
Israel can be responding in an awful way and I can attack that as well as attack Hamas's terrorist act which killed almost 700 civilians. That is what is happening.
you can criticize Hamas without baselessly asserting that they did it to provoke a response like this.
you are blaming Hamas for the response. you are saying Hamas wanted the response. the response has been unequivocally genocidal.
now that we got our facts straight on the 700, we know that many of those were killed by Israelis themselves doing Hannibal. we also know that the Kibbutzes were armed and fighting back.
and finally, we know that if you join Hamas then you are always a target for Israel. so why should former IDF who are living
LOL. The Palestinians live-streamed themselves curb stomping Thai farmers to death while chanting "Allah Akbar". Apparently, unlike you I am old enough to remember Hamas live-streaming their atrocities against unarmed civilians.
This post reminds me of this skit:
https://babylonbee.com/news/hamas-disapp...
Hamas Disappointed Liberals Don't Believe They Massacred Jews After They Went To All The Trouble To Livestream It
I am not blaming Hamas for provoking THE response. I am blaming Hamas for provoking A response. A response that they knew would be violent and result in dead Palestinians and destroyed homes. Stop trying to alter my argument, you might think you are being subtle but it's very clear what you're doing.
Hamas knew that Israel would respond with violence. Only the most naive person would argue that. As I've said several times now, Hamas likely underestimated the response, but they still knew a response was coming. They knew that that response would result in dead Palestinians and destroyed homes. You have yet to argue against my argument a single time, and instead choose to argue against the argument you prefer to argue against. This is a common theme with you, and the rest of your post is entirely an attempt at doing that.
I think we are all discounting the possibility that the people organizing the raid (Hamas military wing) really are religious fanatics, and believe they were ushering in the end times where judgement day would come for the Jews, and that if their resolve held Allah would lead them to victory even if the odds were stacked against them with no clear path.
Remember, 3 years earlier they held a conference where they seriously deliberated how to apportion conquered Israel and what to do with the surviving Jews once Israel was conquered. At some point we have to accept they sincerely believed they were (are?) going to defeat Israel (if not directly in that raid, then in the aftermath) although the details hadn't been worked out.
I am not blaming Hamas for provoking THE response. I am blaming Hamas for provoking A response. A response that they knew would be violent and result in dead Palestinians and destroyed homes. Stop trying to alter my argument, you might think you are being subtle but it's very clear what you're doing.
Hamas knew that Israel would respond with violence. Only the most naive person would argue that. As I've said several times now, Hamas likely u
So you’re blaming Hamas for something they had to do to survive
Why?
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If an organization has to use terror to survive then that should tell you what kind of an organization they are. I do not defend terrorist organizations. Why do you?
If they weren't a terrorist organization reliant on terror to survive then you're begging the question. Why?
If an organization has to use terror to survive then that should tell you what kind of an organization they are. I do not defend terrorist organizations. Why do you?
If they weren't a terrorist organization reliant on terror to survive then you're begging the question. Why?
Please be more specific
They are an organization that has to use terror to survive
“Then that should tell you what kinda organization they are”
What? You tell me.
I defend the legal right for people to defend themselves, you don’t?
LOL. The Palestinians live-streamed themselves curb stomping Thai farmers to death while chanting "Allah Akbar". Apparently, unlike you I am old enough to remember Hamas live-streaming their atrocities against unarmed civilians.
This post reminds me of this skit:
https://babylonbee.com/news/hamas-disapp...
Hamas Disappointed Liberals Don't Believe
ya they committed atrocities. not sure if it was Hamas actually but whatever, they were in charge.
the fact remains that they commit atrocities at an exponentially lower rate than the Israelis.
I am not blaming Hamas for provoking THE response. I am blaming Hamas for provoking A response. A response that they knew would be violent and result in dead Palestinians and destroyed homes. Stop trying to alter my argument, you might think you are being subtle but it's very clear what you're doing.
Hamas knew that Israel would respond with violence. Only the most naive person would argue that. As I've said several times now, Hamas likely u
no I think that you are blaming Hamas for what Israel is doing is disgusting and esp hypocritical given how you bloviate on Ukraine.
Hamas is entitled by law to engage in armed resistance. Israel is the group that is breaking the law and have been for 75 years.
and while Hamas may not have predicted such a response, I would imagine that they did not predict a full military defeat of the defensive forts of Oct 7. you make it seem like they had all of this planned. like they totally expected to overrun one of the supposedly most prepared armies of all time so they coul be able to do a bunch of murder.
If an organization has to use terror to survive then that should tell you what kind of an organization they are. I do not defend terrorist organizations. Why do you?
If they weren't a terrorist organization reliant on terror to survive then you're begging the question. Why?
curious about your thoughts on Nelson Mandela
Please be more specific
They are an organization that has to use terror to survive
“Then that should tell you what kinda organization they are”
What? You tell me.
It's in the next sentence... they are a terrorist organization.
I defend the legal right for people to defend themselves, you don’t?
Organizations are not people. If the organization is reliant on terror to survive, then it shouldn't survive. The members of that organization should disband and form, or join, an organization that isn't reliant on terror. Why do you think members of an organization should do whatever it takes for their terrorist organization to survive, even if it's a terrorist organization? This seems quite different from your take on organizations like Azov.
It's in the next sentence... they are a terrorist organization.
Organizations are not people. If the organization is reliant on terror to survive, then it shouldn't survive. The members of that organization should disband and form, or join, an organization that isn't reliant on terror. Why do you think members of an organization should do whatever it takes for their terrorist organization to survive, even if it's a terrorist organization? T
So you think terrorism means that the people doing terrorism can be eradicated because terrorism is such a bad thing to do
Is that correct?
no I think that you are blaming Hamas for what Israel is doing is disgusting and esp hypocritical given how you bloviate on Ukraine.
Well you are incorrrect. I have shown you how you are incorrect. I have shown you why you are incorrect.
"bloviate" lol so petty.
Hamas is entitled by law to engage in armed resistance. Israel is the group that is breaking the law and have been for 75 years.
and while Hamas may not have predicted such a response, I would imagine that they did not predict a full military defeat of the defensive forts of Oct 7. you make it seem like they had all of this planned. like they totally expected to overrun one of the supposedly most prepared armies of all time so they coul be able to do a bunch of murder.
Attacking a concert is not armed resistance.
I don't make it seem like anything. You just refuse to take on my argument and continually create new arguments for me in order to deflect from your inability to actually face my argument. I don't even know what you're saying here. It's Israel's fault that Hamas got so far and then did a bunch of murder? That sounds exactly like the argument you're trying to claim that I'm making, but I am not.
Try to face the actual argument: Before Hamas committed October 7th, do you think Hamas expected an armed response from Israel that would result in dead Palestinians and destroyed homes?
PW, you've asked a lot of questions and answered none. Terrorists should be held accountable for their crimes.
Attacking the occupier is armed resistance.
Ok so Israel should be held accountable for its terrorist crimes.
But how?
I don’t know if you can commit terrorism when you’re fighting against an occupying genocidal Force with superior weaponry and money.
PW: you don't get to move past the conversation onto a new one because you don't want to face your own arguments from the conversation we're currently having.
Weren't you in the military? Did they really teach you that attacking civilians, even if they are civilians of an enemy nation, is "armed resistance"?
Why do terrorist organizations deserve to commit terror unpunished in order to survive?
Feel free to go through the other answers you avoided.
PW: you don't get to move past the conversation onto a new one because you don't want to face your own arguments from the conversation we're currently having.
Weren't you in the military? Did they really teach you that attacking civilians, even if they are civilians of an enemy nation, is "armed resistance"?
Why do terrorist organizations deserve to commit terror unpunished in order to survive?
Feel free to go through the other answers you avo
Yes. I’ll link you to the handbooks on covert action and guerilla warfare.
Why do terrorist deserve to commit terror unpunished to survive?
BECAUSE NOBODY IS PUNISHING THE PEOPLE TERRORIZING THE OPPRESSED PEOPLE.
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