Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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The perimeter is occupied. The borders are sealed. Gaza fishermen aren't allowed to go more than three miles out. No airport is allowed.
I always chuckle when random weirdos on the internet say “Period.” as if they have any authority beyond their own myopic obstinacy, poor things. Like when a toddler stomps their foot.
I've gotten a headache from the last page
If you're government is full of terrorists that constantly shoot rockets at their neighbors, their neighbors must do what it can to protect its citizens. That's what the gaza blockade was. Period
The West Bank is a different issue. But Gaza has not been occupied since 2005. Period.
Period. Lmao
The fact, and it is a fact, that Netanyahu favored Hamas should really give a lot of people pause. Maybe it does internally, but they just won't admit it.
Regardless of what any of the states around there are doing, the Palestinians have been stateless or at least less than really sovereign for 57 years. Facts matter.
By their own choice. They are the first people to object if someone suggests UNRWA's mission statement to have them be permanent refugees (until some indefinite point their political demands are met) is modified. Palestinians being stateless is ultimately a decision made by their own leadership, which the people overwhelmingly support. They dont even pretend otherwise. They explicitly state that they wish to remain in this state, as they see any resolution as interfering with their political goals of reconquering Israel.
Israel invaded in 1947. committed a genocide similar to the US trail of tears.
The other states fought back against the invader
Egypt may have occupied parts of gaza for 20 years, israel invaded and got it tho right?
facts matter
Not true
The un approved the partition plan
Israel agreed
5 arab countries attacked Israel
Egypt immediately occupied Gaza
Jordan immediately occupied the West Bank
Israel was not an Invader
You're welcome for the education
If the people of Gaza renounced Jihad, martyrdom, right of return, threw out all the terrorists and committed themselves to formation of a peaceful state; and Israel and Egypt kept their same policies it would absolutely be intolerable.
However, given the nihilistic obstinance of the Gaza populace, and their devotion to Jihad and martyrdom, Egypt and Israel's actions are completely rationale.
Thank you
By their own choice. They are the first people to object if someone suggests UNRWA's mission statement to have them be permanent refugees (until some indefinite point their political demands are met) is modified. Palestinians being stateless is ultimately a decision made by their own leadership, which the people overwhelmingly support. They dont even pretend otherwise. They explicitly state that they wish to remain in this state, as the
In 1848 the USA beat Mexico in a war and won. Mexico gave up half their country or thereabouts and the USA took it. USA said the people who were previously Mexican who lived there they could stay as Mexican citizens, leave, or become American citizens. Israel could have done the same in 1967, but didn't. In 1948 Israel did not let refugees return back to their homes after the war, which is awful, but at least they let the Arabs who remained remain as citizens of Israel. What is pretty unusual about Israel and Palestine is not that some Palestinians continue to want to fight the wars of 1948 or 1967. It's the occupation that's unusual.
Not true
The un approved the partition plan
Israel agreed
5 arab countries attacked Israel
Egypt immediately occupied Gaza
Jordan immediately occupied the West Bank
Israel was not an Invader
You're welcome for the education
all you did was show that the UN approved Israel to invade Palestine.
A war versus civilians?
video of the ambush just came out. I guess thats why the soldiers dont usually leave their tanks.
I'm curious, without Googling. How many IDF troops do you think are in Gaza today?
Which Battalions?
And what are they doing there?
My sense is you won't be able to answer this without looking it up. After which I will tell you.
I mean, it was already talked about in this thread a few days ago
I'm curious, without Googling. How many IDF troops do you think are in Gaza today?
Which Battalions?
And what are they doing there?
My sense is you won't be able to answer this without looking it up. After which I will tell you.
Good questions. You know the answers? (at least as well as they are publicly known)
I'm not going to look it up and take a pretty wild guess.
3000 Israeli troops inside Gaza. No guess about battalion numbers.
Googling I just find estimates of "several thousand". I was vacillating between 3000 and 4000. Should have gone with 4.
they just pulled out all but one brigade a few days ago.
looking at a map it doesnt make much sense to me. why would they leave Khan Younis if they still plan to invade Rafah? something doesnt add up.
I didn't ask any of you, but since you answered, I'll answer.
There are now less than 1000 IDF Troops in Gaza, all from the Nahal.
They do one thing exactly now, which is protect the corridor that splits North/South. The corridor is the aid corridor, the troop corridor, and also the means to make sure Hamas doesn't go North. They tend to get attacked, so there's a defensive responsibility there. Some of that defensive responsibility means going on offence for the few hundred yards around them. But that's as far as they go.
That's as of this morning, it's been happening for a few days. I'll post another post as I cook on where things are going in my opinion now.
I'm curious, without Googling. How many IDF troops do you think are in Gaza today?
Which Battalions?
And what are they doing there?
My sense is you won't be able to answer this without looking it up. After which I will tell you.
Well, they're not an occupying force and they're not vacationing... maybe they're on some kind of work-study program?
ok my food isn't going to burn, I can type something up.
I believe Israel has essentially lost the first phase of this war. Not in the way Victor would think though. If you want to measure damage done to the enemy, the IDF outperformed everyone's wildest expectations. They destroyed 18 Hamas battalions (leaving maybe 6), and lost in the low hundreds doing so. Everyone figured it would take thousands of IDF dead to achieve that goal. The problem is that destroying 18 Hamas battalions isn't winning the war.
As of right now, Sinwar is said to believe he's won. That's coming right from people who spend time with him. And this is because of the massive swing in global public opinion (on the conflict) that swung the hardest when the 7 aid workers were killed. The threats the USA made at that point were ones Bibi couldn't come back from. As miserably as he performed before Oct 7, he's truly been awful since.
While Israel fought a first level thinking military campaign, they completely lost the bigger picture war. The media and diplomatic war, the responsibility to provide better aid, taking even more extreme steps to save lives (to be clear no other country does, but they have no choice). And it's put them right here today in a position where they have very little leverage.
Hamas has all the hostage leverage. That's in part due to the way the hostage families have behaved (which is entirely understandable), but also Israel's "allies". Obviously the election year aspect has been extremely difficult, and if Sinwar timed it with that, he's even more brilliant than people think. The Israeli hostage negotiation team today was sent with the orders to concede to far greater demands. So we could actually see a very lopsided deal soon enough.
So what's next? An election in Israel before the Fall is almost assured. But I also think Israel is going to make a very big bet on Trump. Unlike PointlessWords, I do know my regional history. When the Brits left in May of 1948, that was the countdown down to the invasion by Egypt and the others. I think similarly we can see one of a few scenarios.
1) Israel helps massively with aid (it's already happening as of today), and takes the full 3 months it takes to get everyone out of Rafah (it's said to take 2 months very minimum, so 3-4 seems more realistic. That's July-August timeframe. Then they take the pulse of the USA, the election, and maybe they hit Rafah then.
or
2) They bet it all on Trump. Once he's won, they run the campaign that want to run, which would be part 2 of the war. By then Bibi is definitely gone. I can't say what the campaign looks like without knowing who wins the election.
I think that will take us through the Summer. Hezbollah will probably be the ones who decide what happens to the North. So I won't try to guess timing there.
