The costs of trans visibility

Chillrob, Are you expressing the judgment that, despite medical doctors provide the prescription, using puberty blockers for gender identity treatment is illegitimate?

There are a lot of things that almost everybody agrees are child abuse. These treatments are things that some people think are abuse and others don't. I don't know what the percentages are but it's pretty well split. Having the government make this decision is a huge expansion of government power and nothing anyone who imagines themselves as a libertarian should support. The default should be that the people closest to it get to make the decision and not the government.

Amazing that a self-described libertarian is the biggest person pushing for government interventions not just in this thread but all over the place.

We didn't even allow human challenges trials for vaccines even during the "worst pandemic in 100 years" roflmao.

Challenges would be volunteers accepting to be inoculated (or otherwise be fully exposed) the virus two weeks (or whatever timing seems appropriate from phase one an two) after vaccination (or placebo) to have a huge sample size very quickly.

We had to wait for phase 3 participants to "naturally" get infected.

Because of moral, ethical considerations of politicians (mostly on the left).

But we cannot act politically if minors get mutilated, that's unacceptable because the left wants them to be allowed to be mutilated if a physician agrees.

And the challenges would have been to adults (so no objection would be valid, given an adult should be allowed to risk with his body as much as he wants no exceptions), while the left currently wants to mutilate minors, people which we as a society deemed not mature enough to decide to get A TATOO.

Those were hopelessly off topic and painful to read. Eh, you tried to make the last one tangential relevant.

Probably because he thinks the govt will act in behalf of his property rights....

I don't think medical doctors should be involved in something like "gender identity treatment" at all, unless the patient is suffering from a disease or illness.

But they are because puberty blockers require a prescription.

Yes, I understand that doctors are currently involved in "gender identity" issues, but I think they should not be. You're talking in circles and asking the same things over and over.

Certainly can't have medical professionals involved in these kinds of decisions.

So you follow medical advice on medical treatment and medical issues that you think medical doctors should be involved?

I think its more the "most doctors aren't House and just do boring preventative maintenance and checkups" part of the conversation

Or the "there are many more branches of medical science then just pathology" part of the conversation

You saw and responded to the report of the undercover 14 year old's trip the doctor without any parental involvement. Experts show strong evidence of social contagion. Woman of the year is being awarded to biological men etc. The left wing activists and teachers just spent months protesting and counter protesting the issue of teachers having the right to transition kids at school without telling the parents.

In no sane world is doing this stuff to kids without informing the parents acceptable..... Then you have the aspect of if the treatments themselves are child abuse. Well for starters, the best research we have shows that kids experiencing gender dysphoria most often just end up being gay if left with no intervention. Until they can explain why that's the case and are able to sort the difference, I don't see the justification.

Since you seem to believe that trans kids actually exist (they are trans vs think they're trans), maybe you have some theories on why the majority turn out to just be gay?

Did you see this? Genuinely curious

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

I said absolutely nothing that would indicate anything about this one way or the other. I don't know if what you suggest is true or not. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. The question I addressed was who should make the decision. You think it's Joe Biden or Donald Trump and the police who should I guess.

So you don't believe kids can actually be trans and then your take was to call out someones libertarianism? If kids can't actually be trans then your take is to call out libertarians for having police involved when a doctor starts medically transitioning a kid for something they don't have without informing the parents?

Obviously you indicated one way or the other. If you haven't come right out and state your actual position, have a drink or something if courage is an issue for you

I didn't say that either!!!!

Shrug. Yeah, I think it's possible for some kids to be trans and for some kids to be confused and end up gay or just be straight. I don't really know what the percentages are and I don't presume to make decisions like this for other people and I sure as hell don't presume to pay people with guns to go and make these decisions for other people.

Now, most of this thread is not about parental notification requirements, which is a little different.

Why do you care so much? You have a kid who is trans or something? You care this much about every issue involving children's health? Or are you a fascist who just wants to persecute some people you think are deviant? Or maybe you're a big totalitarian state communist and you want to enforce strict government control over everyone?

Eh, its nice to see that micro and I still have similar stances on a few things.

We might agree on more than you think, but just prioritize things differently.

Not using preferred pronouns is a choice

Wanting the government to regulate genitals and puberty is beyond baffling

The legal system effectively makes decisions about everything. The only thing that we're arguing is what the legal guidelines should be.

So infibulation should be perfectly legal if i find a physician willing to perform it ?

If you accept a political ban of infibulation then you accept the government regulating when and if minors' genitals can be mutilated, over and above the will of parents and physicians.

Then it's just about whether we consider it sensible to mutilate healthy genitals in a kid who thinks he is of the opposite sex

"why do you care so much if kids get mutilated because of radical leftist ideology" is quite the take btw.

That's identical to "you should shut the **** up about infibulation, is your daugther being infibulated? no? then it's about her parents and the somalian physician they found"

Libertarianism doesn't predicate infinite power upon dependants who can't choose for themselves.

Your children aren't your property in libertarianism. You are a custodian who has to act in their best interest and if you don't state violence has to be used to prevent your violence upon your kids, in libertarianism.

So the question is whether interrupting puberty, then sterilizing the kids with hormones, then sometimes mutilating his genitals or breasts is violence or not, for kids who think they are of the opposite sex.

There is no incoherence with libertarian principles.

Are you in a contest to fit as many strawman arguments in one post as possible? No one has argued any of those positions with you.