SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics)
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SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics)

Welcome to the Official SE Politics Thread. The aim here is for high quality political discussion and debate. The concomitant aim here is for that high quality discussion and debate to NOT devolve into MAD posting, BAD posting, trolling, name-calling our community fracture.

We embark on this project hoping to encourage fair and thorough exchanges of views, and also fair and thorough advocacy for positions. We should learn a lot.

Rules

1. Posters are required to have 50 posts in SE over the last 365 days. This thread is not a proxy for the Politics forum, or an arena for goal-based issue advocacy from people we don't even know.

2. Pure devil's advocacy will not be tolerated unless it is identified by that poster as the aim of the particular post. There will be no run of the mill nitpickery for the sake of nitpickery.

3. This will be enforced loosely, but you are obligated to outline your basic position on whatever issue you're debating. We will not have loaded, gotcha-style internet-standard race to the bottom terrible posting in this thread. That does not mean you have to state every closely-held belief in every debate. You just can't hide the ball. "I'm not sure what my position is" is a completely valid position to hold.

4. Insults are out. You will not resort to that in this thread, because that will ruin this thread.

5. If you demonstrate an ongoing commitment to lowering the quality of discourse through incessant trolling or simply being really terrible, you'll be removed from this thread.

6. These are subject to significant revision as this thread develops.

There is a tradition in SE of better, fuller, funnier discussion of a really wide range of topics. Let's continue that here.

03 December 2015 at 07:37 PM
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987 Replies

5
w


lol everyone around you wants to get you.



the troika



https://defector.com/voting-for-gaza

While I thought this over I was following the coverage of Israel's murder of the seven World Central Kitchen relief workers in Gaza. Now and then, it feels as if some atrocity from Gaza has to be so atrocious as to break through the complacency and resignation, and this one really seemed to be a contender: The relief convoy was fully labeled and had cleared its route with the Israeli authorities, and the Israel Defense Forces didn't just blow them up anyway, but viciously hunted them down—blowing up one car, then blowing up the car that rescued the survivors from the first car, then blowing up the car that rescued the survivors from the second, stretching out their victims' ordeal over the course of a mile until there were no survivors left for anyone else to try to rescue.


thank the gods that the good guy adults are back in the room #vbnmw


Like gun control in this nation.

Spoiler
Show

https://x.com/LibertyCappy/status/177537...

Gun nuts in America are stupid.

It made sense back in 1776 for everyone to be armed because the British could come back or it allows you to overthrow a tyrannical government.

But those don't apply anymore.

No one is invading the US and you can't overthrow the government with guns if you try.

Got any solution when an AC130 gunship flies over you? You gonna shoot at the sky and take it out? LOL. Here's a ****ing howlizter shell to blow you to bits!

Americans love guns because it mainly they like the idea that they have power. Look at that piece of **** wiper, fits this to a mold. You take away his gun and he's probably in the fetal position in a closet like all the other trash gun owners.


both sides use the government tyranny card to prove their point and both sides are technically correct.

fwiw, you don't shoot at the a10 with guns, you ambush command and control structures and stuff. lol, yeah, just as easy....but actually within the realm of possibility at least.

this problem will exist for ever. it's not a time problem or a rights problem or a tyranny problem. it's a geographical 'problem'.

it's no big deal with people in the countryside to have guns. make a range, shoot all the animals on your property. i. don't. care. and nor should i.

...it's the cities man...it's the cities. it just doesn't work all that great to have high concentrations of people of every walk of life walking that life together armed. pretty easy stuff really. but what are you going to do?


I mean, you could possibly make a choice that the benefits to people in rural areas of having unfettered access to guns are outweighed by the costs of having oceans of guns in cities and impose restrictions based on that reality.

or you could go with:

no gun laws that George Washington wouldn’t have been ok with.

Tomato / tomahto really.


you're better off trying to limit gun within city limits like wyatt earp. can't recall how that worked out though. either way, none of it is going to be "fair". right now though, the pussy foot ban this but not that is pretty LOL.

that whole "make a choice that forces people in one geography to do what people in another are forced to do because they all live on top of each other and are *******s" is pretty laughable though.


the foxnews gang solves gun fever


by Chilltown k

No one is invading the US and you can't overthrow the government with guns if you try.

Americans love guns because it mainly they like the idea that they have power. Look at that piece of **** wiper, fits this to a mold. You take away his gun and he's probably in the fetal position in a closet like all the other trash gun owners.

yeah the gun as a pacifier is an interesting idea and prob true to a large extent, but then there's the freaks who get mad at whatever and decide to mow down a crowd of innocent ppl as if that makes any goddamn sense. kind of a pointless issue because even if dems could they prob wouldn't ever pass common sense legislation to take guns from crazy ppl, they'd rather have something to talk about and fundraise on, like with every other problem


https://defector.com/the-exchange-rate-o...


In the eyes of Joe Biden and the U.S. government, Palestinian lives count for less. If a former State Department official can casually state it as fact in an interview, it’s not really that provocative of a thesis. The past six months in Gaza have provided heaps of evidence, but last week’s bombing of the World Central Kitchen workers re-emphasized that there is an exchange rate on Palestinian life, and it is favorable to those doing a brisk trade in genocide.

On April 1, Israeli air strikes destroyed three different vehicles, all clearly marked by the WCK logo, and killed seven aid workers who had finished unloading supplies in Gaza. WCK founder José Andrés said that the bombings were conducted “systematically, car by car.” An army doesn’t accidentally air-strike a fleeing group of people three times.

[...]

The reason that Israel, in this case as opposed to so many cases before, had to treat these killings as a serious matter was because Biden finally chose to exert the barest amount of diplomatic pressure. (At the same time, his administration was sending more planes, bombs, and money to Israel.) This time, the reaction was different. It was the final straw. These seven humanitarian aid workers from all over the world—three of them British, one Australian, one Polish, one dual U.S.-Canadian citizen, and one Palestinian from Rafah—were seen as complete innocents. And they were. “Innocent people, doing good work to feed a starving population, have died for no reason at all,” read an article in The Atlantic. Did anyone stop to wonder how many of the 33,000 dead in Gaza were also innocent people doing good work?

[...] his assorted flacks and lackeys all insist that the policy toward Israel will remain unchanged. They will continue to say that every civilian death is a tragedy—an endlessly repeated talking point that fits in line with the Democratic Party’s broader philosophy of acknowledging needless death without doing anything about it. The red line is a mirage. Leverage exists and could be exercised, but is intentionally left untouched.

While the Biden administration might have its own unspoken exchange rate, the Israeli military has a literal one. An investigation published by +972 Magazine revealed the existence of an artificial-intelligence program called “Lavender,” used to identify targets for bombing and treated to be as accurate as a human. Essentially it functioned as a generator of collateral damage; a separate program called “Where’s Daddy?” would reportedly track targets and bomb them when they returned to their families. The number of acceptable civilian deaths fluctuated with no justification or discrimination between adult and child. Israel’s military was allowed to kill 20 innocents to get one person identified as part of Hamas—never mind whether that one person had been accurately identified as part of Hamas. From the investigation:

According to A., who was an officer in a target operation room in the current war, the army’s international law department has never before given such “sweeping approval” for such a high collateral damage degree. “It’s not just that you can kill any person who is a Hamas soldier, which is clearly permitted and legitimate in terms of international law,” A. said. “But they directly tell you: ‘You are allowed to kill them along with many civilians.’

“Every person who wore a Hamas uniform in the past year or two could be bombed with 20 [civilians killed as] collateral damage, even without special permission,” A. continued. “In practice, the principle of proportionality did not exist.”

According to A., this was the policy for most of the time that he served. Only later did the military lower the collateral damage degree. “In this calculation, it could also be 20 children for a junior operative … It really wasn’t like that in the past,” A. explained. Asked about the security rationale behind this policy, A. replied: “Lethality.”

This strategy was unchallenged for years, but then José Andrés’s workers fell victim to it. [...] "The latest incident has also affected Joe Biden in a way earlier ones did not," Edward Luce wrote at the Financial Times. "Put simply, Andrés is a Washington celebrity." The queasy-making part of Luce's speculation is that he might be right: Because this horror is connected to José Andrés, a chef and humanitarian revered in D.C., it sprang a specific subset of American politician into action. “He was one of the pioneers of high-quality restaurants in an early 1990s Washington that had a well-deserved reputation for dowdy food," Luce went on. "Andrés’s Jaleo introduced Spanish-style tapas food to America’s capital. In 2016, his restaurant, Minibar, was one of Washington’s first batch to merit a two-star Michelin award. Among others, Nancy Pelosi, the former US Speaker, has nominated him for a Nobel Peace Prize.”

How are Andrés and his workers any more innocent than a Palestinian family that hasn’t eaten in weeks, a child in Rafah whose parents have been erased by bombs, or the rest of the nearly 200 aid workers killed by Israel’s attacks? Where was this kind of honest and direct language for them? Well, of course, they’re from over there. The distance, combined with a relentless campaign of dehumanization, reduces them to numbers in a death toll rather than individual portraits, like the humanitarians who came to Deir al Balah from other parts of the world. And anyway, a U.S. congressman isn't looking for a restaurant reservation in Gaza.

There is no relief to be found in Biden’s sharp criticism, a sharpness comparable to a butter knife. It’s not just the callousness of White House policy that reveals who and what is being valued; it’s also the moments where the administration chooses to care. As it stands, the exchange rate is six to 33,000, and counting.


the is no hell deep or hot enough for genocide joe, what a complete and utter sack of ****


would be darkly funny but completely on-brand if the dems care now because some celebrity chef they know is involved, but they probably still don't. pretending to care almost certainly just election some election year posturing


José Andrés was nominated for a peace prize because of what he's done since 2010 with WCK, the non-profit he founded.
curious if you disagree with any of their humanitarian efforts


Jose Andres signed supported the genocide at the beginning fwiw.


https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali...


by 72off k

https://defector.com/the-exchange-rate-o...

the is no hell deep or hot enough for genocide joe, what a complete and utter sack of ****


would be darkly funny but completely on-brand if the dems care now because some celebrity chef they know is involved, but they probably still don't. pretending to care almost certainly just election some election year posturing

I think they care. they are terrified that tapas will leave DC.


tbf it'd be a lethal blow considering his #1 campaign pledge was to make brunch great again uh2ci


nice thats nice


Lol Elon


Mollusk.


Iranian drones are reportedly being launched against Israel.

**** is about to get real.


save us, donny da dove !!!


I tend to think Iran is firing missiles they know are going to be intercepted just to prove a point

If any of these land I guess I’m not gonna correct ppl who think I’m Mexican for the foreseeable future


by StoppedRainingMen k

I tend to think Iran is firing missiles they know are going to be intercepted just to prove a point

If any of these land I guess I’m not gonna correct ppl who think I’m Mexican for the foreseeable future

Yeah I watched a recent Kyle Kulinski/ Secular Talk YouTube when they mentioned this. Might be exactly that, a symbolic gesture.

Interesting to see what the Israeli response will be.


hmm, let me guess



wrong thread?


LOL IRAN

What a waste of missiles/drones.

You bitches didn't hit ****!

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