Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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You guys are seriously defending indoctrinating young people so that they can sacrifice their lives to bomb buses in a premeditated terrorist attack. This is being done with extremely faulty logic like "It's not always bad, what if they suicide bombed Hitler during WW2?"
Those buses weren't full of Hitlers, no matter what your Tankie Twitter propaganda has told you. They were not even full of soldiers, or armed combatants. These were terrori
Spoiler
that's why i called them bots
If someone wants to talk about what people say, there are people in this thread who have literally said "kill 'em all" about Gazans - literally, that's a quote.
I get having a feeling about belonging to a people, but man, taking it to the point where you value different lives so much differently? And, brings back an old discussion here, but man, I thought the lesson for us from being persecuted and the Holocaust was to not stand for any group being treated like that, not to become more tribal. And I think that's something that has changed a lot during my lifetime.
You might be the first person to establish a morality baseline itt. Everyone else is using relative morality.
I'm in the all bombing is bad camp. All torture is wrong, number of acceptable children killed is zero etc etc. Have posted so around these parts for decades
I doubt I was first as its a standard position
It's super sad and awful. When you come up with a better solution on what Israel should do I'll likely endorse it
There weren't 20k dead "children" in Gaza.
Half of civilians are under 18 so half of the random collateral damage is among minors, that doesn't make it worse, I mean if the population pyramid was different the number would be much lower as a % of total, but it's not clear to me why a 22y old dying as collateral damage should be worth less than a 15y old
You might be the first person to establish a morality baseline itt. Everyone else is using relative morality.
For me what's moral is winning above everything else in any zero sum game I have to play.
Given a path to victory, inside it, there are other moral considerations.
But winning trump's every other considerations every time for me.
That's not relative morality, that's winning is the moral goal.
and today we have a nuanced discussion about how it might not be bad when someone blows themselves and as many civilians as possible into a billion pieces in an effort to try to drive the jews out of the holy land. normal stuff, jolly good show etc
For me what's moral is winning above everything else in any zero sum game I have to play.
Given a path to victory, inside it, there are other moral considerations.
But winning trump's every other considerations every time for me.
That's not relative morality, that's winning is the moral goal.
Much of the morality is contained withn which group you are talking about winning
Loosly speaking mine is 'people' and yes I'd more or else agree that morality is them winning.
Of course it's not a zero sum game. Or anything close to one. On topic- israel need the palestinan people to win because it's the same path for israeli people winning.
I'm sure someone could correct me but didn't the suicide missions in the West not really begin until WWI when they just didn't realize that charging into machine guns with bayonets wasn't really the best idea, but by the time the US entered the war they knew better, and before WWI those sorts of suicidal attacks weren't really an option because firepower wasn't quite there yet?
No, not really. It was understood during WW1 that positions defended by barbed wire, magazine rifles and machine guns were extremely difficult to overcome. Artillery was employed as an equaliser, but it couldn't cut wire and only the heaviest shells could penetrate deep-dug bunkers. (The notorious British attack on the Somme on 1 July 1916, to try and relieve pressure on the French at Verdun, resulting in 21,000 dead, failed partly because the British didn't have enough super-heavy howitzers per mile of front.) The British invented the tank, and developed fighter-bomber aviation, to try and tilt the technological balance in favour of the offence over the defence -- this ultimately worked, and the same use of artillery, armour and air power served the Allies well in Normandy in 1944. There was never any question of 'suicide missions', because no country could afford to waste trained manpower. It was just that technology favoured the defence until quite a late stage of WW1. By the time the Americans had a field army ready for action in mid-1918, the war had already entered its mobile phase (once the British defeated and threw back the German offensive that March, rather like the American victory in the Battle of the Bulge at the end of 1944, and for the same reason, that the Germans broke a static stalemate and created a war of manoeuvre for which the Allies were better equipped and prepared), so everything was different.
You're certainly kind of an arsehole, but I don't think you're hoping for Palestinian children to get blown up or anything like that.
I obviously don't. I've asked you many times what you think Israel should do to destroy hamas and you admitted you couldn't come up with anything
War sucks
Civilian death sucks
Fortunately the killing has slown down tremendously
I hope they can move people out of harms way when they destroy rafah and the tunnels beneath it
I also hope Jewish students stop getting harrassed at college campuses. And would hope you would too, and wouldn't quote posts being upset about it saying it's an excuse to forget about people who have died
He's said it like 10 times
Maybe you could think of a better solution for Israel to rid itself of the Palestinians; an ultimate solution? Maybe there's a better term for it too.
That's not their goal
There's well over 5 million Palestinians in the West Bank and gaza and nobody is trying to genocide them no matter how many times you or others say it
I obviously don't. I've asked you many times what you think Israel should do to destroy hamas and you admitted you couldn't come up with anything
War sucks
Civilian death sucks
Fortunately the killing has slown down tremendously
I hope they can move people out of harms way when they destroy rafah and the tunnels beneath it
I also hope Jewish students stop getting harrassed at college campuses. And would hope you would too, and wouldn't quote p
Killing hasn't slowed down. They just can't count the dead.
And lol Jewish students harassed on campus. The only Jewish students that have been harassed are the antisemite Jews that got arrested last night and went to the hospital after the chemical weapons attack by IDF soldiers in Jan.
Israel sent most of the troops home 2 weeks ago. They haven't invaded rafah. There's almost nothing going on this moment
So yes killing has slowed down tremendously
Israel sent most of the troops home 2 weeks ago. They haven't invaded rafah. There's almost nothing going on this moment
So yes killing has slowed down tremendously
The bombing hasn't let up and they have quadcopters shooting everyone they can find. And even using recordings of crying women and children to lure people to their deaths.
You guys are seriously defending indoctrinating young people so that they can sacrifice their lives to bomb buses in a premeditated terrorist attack. This is being done with extremely faulty logic like "It's not always bad, what if they suicide bombed Hitler during WW2?"
Those buses weren't full of Hitlers, no matter what your Tankie Twitter propaganda has told you. They were not even full of soldiers, or armed combatants. These were terrori
Indoctrinating young people eh?
