Israel/Palestine thread

Also watch out for the penetrates

I predicted the us offering this ab million times

Yeah I did too, as did many others. Biden is very clear that he wants a two state solution. It's by far the best solution.

When you read bgp vs vic, it's like a parent and a child. The parent kindly explains, the child screams NO I'M RIGHT, the parent shows why he isn't right, the child goes to bed angry without dinner

Guys they can't do the 2 state without front loading what is needed for 2 state.

Literally the worst failure they can do, is go 2 state, THEN you do your part.

It has to be

Order
Ability to manage and secure your people
Some time passes and we see it's stable
2 state (all of the above sponsored by a bunch of normalized Arab states)

If you just jump right into 2 state, all you'll get is war against the second state as it looks to expand. It has to be the destination. Not the starting point. But the destination version can work with a willing second party.

You guys have to ponder the WB from a military perspective for a second. In the hands of an enemy, you're royally screwed. It just rains rockets down on you from there (tiny distances). A true 2 state outcome there is down the line when you've really got a Palestinian people prepared for peace.

Are we accepting it as fact that the Israeli govt over the last 20 years has actively tried to divide the west bank and Gaza by supporting Hamas to avoid unification and a 2 state solution or is that Victor level conspiracy theory stuff?

For starters, the Israelis politically need to go waaaaay left from here. This will be earned over years. And with an Oct 7th this fresh, that isn't soon.

Don't get distracted by 2 state talk. It's not soon. And it's not soon because that will only make it viewed as an Oct 7th outcome, which it can never be. Because then why not do another, get more. Another, get more.

My guess is more than 10 years. Sorry Biden. Not in Biden's lifetime imho.

Cool. What does the Nazi commentator do?

I agree with Dunyain on a lot of his posts. One of his points is that why a peace process is going to be sabotaged by extreme factions within the Palestinian population. I think it's a good point. Who is going to have the best chance to control this percentage of the population that it not going to accept negotiations? My guess would be Hamas. Destroy Hamas and who is going to regulate this % of the population who is ready to jihad?
Israel may have to come to grips with actually engaging Hamas (Sinwar) diplomatically to come to a long-term solution. That's assuming Hamas is ready to recognize Israel as a state and agree on borders.

As much as biden wants 2 states, he just vetoed a Palestinian state membership into the UN. Because we aren't near that yet. Rafiki is 100% correct

But it will happen eventually

Jerusalem will be the last hangup

WB borders are another hangup which doesn't seem fixable in the current state of things

Well I don't give Hamas the credit for the foresight but 10/7 put this issue right to the forefront given Israel's response and has rattled a lot of anti Israeli sentiment, so it's a win for them there. They could take it as a win getting them closer to a 2 state solution but maybe they're all about river to the sea which will end badly for the Palestinian people.
Would love to see some good faith negotiations.

Access to religious sites for both jews and Christians is a big part of the issue (such as bethlehem) but i think the saudi alliance vs iran is so integral that those borders will be worked out in a way the palestenians will be happy. But i don't see Israel redividing Jerusalem

It's really funny watching people act like the US or Israel will ever support a Palestinian state. Or have ever supported it.

I believe it. I also think most accept that WB settlers are fanatics who have hurt any attempt at peace.

He goes to bed angry without dinner.

Also mega lol @ you saying “it’s fine here.” I’m gonna assume you aren’t Jewish, bc the Jews I know from London aren’t sharing that sentiment.

It's fine here. Not perfect but still fine.

I know a fair few Jews who live here and agree

Which doesn't mean antisemitism, islamophobia and other problems aren't serious and getting worse.

Using Palestinian logic , from the river to the sea should be turkish land.

I don't think anyone disagrees with this. I don't think it will be rushed. Obviously a government that's main purpose is to destroy their neighbor isn't going to considered a legitimate state. Also no one is going to rebuild the cities in such a government, because it will just get destroyed again. I think most will agree to follow your 3 steps, what I think will be the major holdup is that if Hamas isn't allowed in the government then their sole purpose will be to spoil the entire project. Other more extreme groups will be playing that role no matter what, but Hamas would be by far the largest. I think they need to be a part of the government.

I don't usually agree so strongly

If a guy gets threatened with arrest essentially for being "openly Jewish" whose Jewishness may cause offence to pro Palestinian protesters by virtue of the fact that he's "openly Jewish" then it's clearly far from fine in London.

r/thathappened

the police released an apology following that incident, stating that the use of the term 'openly jewish' was, on reflection, 'hugely regrettable'

the statement went on to note that a trend has emerged where those who oppose the pro-palestine marches are appearing close to the protest, and that they (direct quote upcoming) 'must know their presence is provocative'

half an hour later the police apologised for their apology, noting that they have reflected on their previous reflection and have concluded that walking near a pro-palestine march while being openly jewish is not a provocation