Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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I have family and friends abroad but using them as an appeal to authority over and above posters here who also live there and can be challenged would seem pathetically weak.
It's as bad as the "I've had PMs agreeing with me" that some people think is good supporting evidence.
FYI I live in North London with a sizeable Jewish population.
This is a totally disingenuous argument.
You feel it’s all good there. And that’s fine. I’m not discrediting your view, I’m saying that not what I’ve heard from friends/family.
Instead of accepting that some don’t feel
the same way, you try to discredit it with “lol friends” or “looked up on internet.”
You should def talk to some of your Jewish neighbors. See what they have to say.
I wonder if Palestinians are at all worried in the USA and UK. esp after a 6 yr old was stabbed to death after the media incited a psychopath on the "day of Jihad". or the 3 students that got shot with one paralyzed.
proly arent worried bc they love dying amirite. also, can human animals even feel fear, proly not.
I didn't say it's all good here. I said it seems fine. I have talked to Jewish neighbours over the years and they've noticed no change here. That could be down to locale, I don't know, but inferring that London has some sort of problem because of what one person you know says abut Golder's Green isn't smart.
I was living in another part of London ~15 years ago when part of the local Turkish and Greek communities decided to have a large street fight with knives, and it soon petered out into nothingness. London is unusual in its communities live almost on top of one another and differences tend to be quickly resolved.
What is your father's experience?
I think its pretty obv that a lot, if not all, of the questionable behavior going at any pro peace rally is from these guys.
nice country you have there with regard to speech laws, where misgendering someone is a crime but threatening to kill someone isn't
Misgendering is not a crime in England & Wales and, as a result of JK Rowling's careful test of the Scottish hate-crime law, it doesn't seem that police are prepared to treat it as a crime in Scotland either. Threatening to kill is in fact a crime in England & Wales, though it has to relate to a specific person. Incitement to racial hatred is also a crime, and Islamist speakers have on occasion been arrested and charged for the usual 'Death to the Jews' stuff. The whole hate-speech thing is a slippery slope, as Americans often remark, but at least the UK doesn't have US-style at-will employment law. In the UK, if you're fired for wrongthink, you can take your case to an employment tribunal, as Maya Forstater successfully did, and the tribunal has to follow UK law and the European Convention on freedom of speech and belief. In the US, as I understand it, you have no such recourse (the First Amendment is a paper tiger that only restricts the federal government's power to legislate and does not actively confer any specific rights or protections on the citizen, and it certainly gives no scope to hold employers to account), so US employment law has quite a totalitarian, chilling, hivemind effect.
I thought he's in Italy.
I didn't say it's all good here. I said it seems fine. I have talked to Jewish neighbours over the years and they've noticed no change here. That could be down to locale, I don't know, but inferring that London has some sort of problem because of what one person you know says abut Golder's Green isn't smart.
I was living in another part of London ~15 years ago when part of the local Turkish and Greek communities decided to have a street figh
Ok, so I don’t think we are arguing too much. This is semantics.
There is middle ground between “everything is totally fine” and “Jews are in constant danger.” There is def a level of uneasiness I suppose, like they don’t feel comfortable wearing kippahs at times. This is what I’m being told, obv in a huge city like London there’s gonna be lots of different views/friends.
My father (and his siblings) left England a long time ago. His cousins stayed.
to support Israel and support genocide most people necessarily need to make themselves afraid as justification.
Misgendering is not a crime in England & Wales and, as a result of JK Rowling's careful test of the Scottish hate-crime law, it doesn't seem that police are prepared to treat it as a crime in Scotland either. Threatening to kill is in fact a crime in England & Wales, though it has to relate to a specific person. Incitement to racial hatred is also a crime, and Islamist speakers have on occasion been arrested and charged for the usual 'Death
(I am in Italy).
So , chanting "death to America" automatically allows for police to arrest all the people chanting?
You like to make claims about yourself like this and like having lived in Israel, because you sense, correctly, that your arguments are weightless.
In fairness, having lived in Israel is at least a direct eyewitness account to a lot of what is being discussed here. Over say, what Twitter randomly tells you from a bunch of people who hate Jews.
You can listen to what someone tells you living in New York is like. Or you can actually do it. Only the latter really gives you a full sense of things. The rest is just second/third hand opinions laced in bias.
Sad about the "humanitarian" part, still decent to see this passed as well
but living in Gaza or the West Bank? their accounts mean nothing amirite
All the IRL London Jews I know are from Bethnal Green. But if it's any consolation, I don't particularly like them 
Bethnal Green was very Jewish a hundred years ago, and up to the Second World War, but the largest ethnic group now is Bangladeshi, the MP is Rushanara Ali (Labour) and the population is 50% Muslim. Jews still in the area tend to be older, because of the drift to north-west London since the war.
Ok, so I don’t think we are arguing too much. This is semantics.
There is middle ground between “everything is totally fine” and “Jews are in constant danger.” There is def a level of uneasiness I suppose, like they don’t feel comfortable wearing kippahs at times. This is what I’m being told, obv in a huge city like London there’s gonna be lots of different views/friends.
My father (and his sibl
It's not 'totally fine'. Never has been and there's no doubt that recent events ahve made it worse. Racists equate israel and jews, nutters are emboldened etc.
LONDON, Feb 15 (Reuters) - Britain recorded thousands of antisemitic incidents after the outbreak of war between Israel and Hamas in October, making 2023 the worst year for UK antisemitism since 1984, when Jewish advisory body CST began recording such data, it said on Thursday.
The number of antisemitic incidents across the country reached 4,103, more than twice the figure in 2022, amid a surge of threats, hate speech, violence and damage to Jewish institutions and property, the Community Security Trust said.
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-reco...
Similarly for Muslims
The number of Islamophobic incidents reported to a project monitoring anti-Muslim abuse in the UK has tripled since the Hamas attacks in Israel last year, the organisation said.
In almost two-thirds of cases recorded, women were the target of attacks, showing they "have borne the majority of the brunt" of the abuse, according to Tell Mama, which describes itself as an independent and confidential support service for people who face anti-Muslim hatred and prejudice across the UK.
It was made aware of 2,010 cases between October 7 and February 7.
https://www.itv.com/news/2024-02-22/shar...
The idea it's not safe by any reasonable standard is still way off the mark. Some pillock in the met police doesn't change that
Guys they can't do the 2 state without front loading what is needed for 2 state.
Literally the worst failure they can do, is go 2 state, THEN you do your part.
It has to be
Order
Ability to manage and secure your people
Some time passes and we see it's stable
2 state (all of the above sponsored by a bunch of normalized Arab states)
If you just jump right into 2 state, all you'll get is war against the second state as it looks to expand. It has
A true two-state outcome is impossible because of Palestinian terrorism, sure, but also because of settlements run amok.
"The impossible often has a kind of integrity to it which the merely improbable lacks."
