The costs of trans visibility

I guess I'm not clear if your goal here is to increase or decrease the acceptance of transgender people.

It's not a punishment to be asked to only compete in sports against other people matching your plumbing.

Fairness is one of those silly pillars that sporting events were built upon. Dumb, I know. We tried coming up with competitions that handed out rewards based on how effectively your self-delusions were reinforced, but it was too hard to make proper judgments for scoring, so we fell back on running, jumping, throwing, and hitting things. Fastest, furthest, and most physical damage to the target were just easier to compare outcomes for.

Turns out, the sexes have wildly different inherent abilities at these types of tasks, so we split the leagues based on that basic biological truth. It was the widest net we could cast without discriminating against anyone. Unbeknownst to humanity at the dawn of civilization, there would eventually come a time where some humans would decide that this basic biological truth could be redefined on an individual basis, solely based on some societal norms put in place for the different genders. Norms which those people reject wholesale as sexist and outdated, and yet, also hold up as the proof that little Timmy needs to henceforth be called little Suzie and allowed into all the girls-only clubs. I mean, he likes pink and plays with dolls. This little boy is clearly a little girl.

I just presented data that showed 9/10 year old girls out throw 13 year old "boys". WTF are you even talking about?

Evidence could **** you in the face and you would swear you are tasting orange juice

The reality is, there is nothing that will satisfy you guys that a 13 year old girl whos been on hormone therapy for 3 years should be allowed to compete in a shot put competition. Not because you think there is some inequality in fairness, but because you despise the idea of Transgender being a real thing.

i think that's unfair finding outliers like that

it's difficult to compare the men to women in the shot put because they throw different weighted balls

so we can only compare becky against the other women in that

mean/median/std of scores were 23.5, 22.8, & 4.4

i know i know it's an lol sample size but she threw it about 50% further than her average competitor and was nearly a full standard deviation better than the girl in 2nd place (but this is also what happened in the men's category so it's not unusual for someone to be quite a bit better than the field)

i saw they mentioned discus, which i checked and lo and behold the boys and girls throw the same weight for that

again with the mean/median/std format
women's results = 52.4, 52.9, 15.6
men's results = 65.3, 64.4, 22.2

the men inarguably throw it further, even if we throw out the result of the guy who won the event with a 124.9' throw, we still get 62.4 & 62.1

It turns out Becky is a pretty good athlete. While she wouldn't have made the podium (nor would the girl who just barely beat her), her 84.4' throw was still healthily better than the average male competitor

the extreme outliers are pretty well distributed (shortest throw belongs to a male), if we throw out the podium finishers and worst three scores for both groups it not becomes 50.5' and 63.6'

the men in general are a full standard deviation better than the women and it's dishonest to look specifically at outliers to compare becky to

yes, she hasn't set the world record, but she went from 0 medals to an easy gold and just barely finished behind 1st to get a silver in another

is this random sampling we have scores ranging from as low as 25' to as high as 125' - one guy literally threw the disk 100' further than the guy who finished in last

as you can expect from this age group where there's going to be a tremendous gaps in training, dedication, & physical ability = you'll get tremendous gaps

becky may not be a future olympian, but she did beat the 8th grade shot put record for her county with that victory - they haven't updated it yet, but the old record was 30' - she also would have set the discus record as well if not for the fact another girl edged her out

https://www.athletic.net/team/45083/trac...

You need to remember, these people don't understand (or probably even like) sports/competition. They see it as some sort of choose your own adventure social club.

I wrestled for 9 years, played baseball for 12, played football and basketball. I was in the USCF, played counterstrike in CAL, played poker professionally for years, etc etc. It would be difficult for anyone on this forum to have spent more time playing sports or competing than me because my entire child hood revolved around sports and competing.

Swing and a miss.

And its from that foundation of competition that I learned that sometimes people are just better than you no matter how hard you work. Sometimes you lose when you desperately want to win. Thats how life works. Is it fair that I have elite athleticism but was born 5'7? Not really.

coordi, do you think it would have been an unfair advantage for you to have competed in women's leagues for any of those?

5'7" is pretty tall at birth.

We wrestled against girls as there wasn't enough interest for a womens division.

https://abc7chicago.com/maddie-ripley-ma...

Its not as uncommon for a girl to win a title against boys as you would imagine. It happened 20 years ago as well. I still remember to this day our team ripping Marcus V for losing to a girl in our schools tournament.

But yeah, if I was on puberty blockers it would be incredibly unfair for me to compete against these savages. I'd have been decimated.

This girl went 28-0 last season against other girls with 25 pins. Sounds like a fair and even playing field to me. https://www.yurview.com/oklahoma/hand-is...

Serena Williams would've destroyed me on a tennis court, but that doesn't mean I should've been allowed to compete in girls' tennis as a child.

I am a giant, and always have been. I had opposing coaches demanding my parents produce a birth certificate during little league games. There are always going to be genetic advantages within any subset of competitors.

There are strong girls and weak boys, but on average the boys always come out on top. It's about creating the fairest playing field you can, and that means all the people born with testes in one group, and everyone else in the other. If you willfully chop yours off at some point, you still have to stick to the rules as they were intended. It's not that hard.

The more I think about it the more hilarious this is.

Did you ever experience a run rule in little league? Like a team getting destroyed so handedly they just call the game to end the embarrassment?

Competition isn't about level playing fields. Its about being the best.

Becky isn't Serena Williams. Her throw was 60% of the national record. Shes objectively not even remotely close to elite. It just so happens that slightly above mediocre was good enough to edge out a handful of other girls in rural West Virginia.

This isn't even difficult to understand. There is no incomprehensible scale here like wrapping your head around 1% of 1% of billions of people.

that boy can play sports with boys competitively, or with anyone in the park

I will never ever argue about anything related to sports with you after this (I read you were a pro sport bettor but for some reason i thought they were mocking you when they said that, now I understand)

What if it's a mixed group at the park and they decide the teams have to have the same number of girls on each team and they count Becky as a girl! Will you call the cops?

they see life in general like that, and the state should pay for the adventure tickets, and if you disagree you are a transphobic privileged white suprematist monster

Yeah, I realize obviously you have to. These children would be cultural marxists and thus enemies of the state and need to be executed or deported to Brazil.

His post supports my stance lol

"Admitting that this is an LOL sample size, eliminating outliers, the boys performed a full standard deviation above the girls"

"She would have set another record if a girl hadn't outperformed her" <--- pure lols btw

So "girls" on testosterone therapy can play competitively with girls, got it.

Except I already know you oppose this.

So your stance is inherently discriminatory. That is objective.

i believe that would be a federal matter so better play it safe and call homeland security

Who said anything about level playing fields? Also irrelevant is your anecdote about girls wrestlers. These days, except for a few "it's just not proper" blowhards, no one cares about girls competing against boys. I don't know how many times it has to be said, there's a reason girls/women have a different division.

This seems like a very good reason to eliminate separate competitions for boys and girls, which I fully support.

Yeah I realize that we have to protect the children from their brainwashed lib parents and the evil marxist doctors and the indoctrination of LGBTQ supporting teachers so they don't cause irreparable harm to their bodies making them weak and infertile through hormone therapy while simultaneously protecting the other children from those conniving and self serving trans children that are just too strong and powerful for conventional competitions.

Its like this succinctly perfect representation of the simultaneously strong and weak opposition presented by fascist governments so effectively.

Its pretty common rhetoric around here to convey trans athletes as exploitative. Just look at how many in the thread, including you, talk about Lia Thomas