Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
Posting guidelines for Politics and Soci...
These are our baselines. We're not reinventing the wheel here. If you aren't sure if something is acceptable to post, its better to ask first. If you think someone is posting something that violates the above guidelines, please report it or PM me rather than responding in kind.
To reiterate some of the points:
1. No personal attacks. This is a broad instruction, but, in general, we want to focus on attacking an argument rather than the poster making it. It is fine to say a post is antisemitic; it is not okay to call someone an antisemite over and over. If you believe someone is making antisemitic posts, report them or PM me. The same goes for calling people "baby killers" and "genocide lovers". You are allowed to argue that an action supports genocide or that the consequences of certain policies results in the death of children, but we are no longer going to be speaking to one another's intentions. It is not productive to the conversation and doesn't further any debate.
2. Racist posts and other bigoted statements that target a particular group or individuals of such groups with derogatory comments are not allowed. This should not need further explanation.
3. Graphic Images need to be in spoilers with a trigger warning.
4. Wishing Harm on other posters will result in an immediate timeout.
5. Genocidal statements such as "Kill 'em all" etc, are no longer permissible in the thread.
If anyone has any questions about the above, please PM me. I don't want a discussion about the rules to derail the content of this thread. If anything needs clarifying, I will do that in this thread.
Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
ya give it a day to breath. unlike the people buried alive by bulldozers in those pits.
Vic, we have decent evidence pointing to those being dead that Palestinians buried. Giving the story time to be verified is just good journalism. Being "first" and being "right", I'll take being right. Let them get it right.
You deflected with a story, now we're simply telling you to let the story be verified.
Israel killed all of those people. some were probably killed in Jan sure.
but a lot of people have debunked that misinfo account already.
Vic, we have decent evidence pointing to those being dead that Palestinians buried. Giving the story time to be verified is just good journalism. Being "first" and being "right", I'll take being right. Let them get it right.
You deflected with a story, now we're simply telling you to let the story be verified.
Why are you bothering? He has repeatedly shown he always just accepts obviously false pro Hamas propaganda in the face of all evidence to the contrary. Why in the world would you expect this instance to be any difference?
and I havent been wrong yet.
Btw I gotta tip my cap to BGP, who quicker than most is figuring out the media issues in this conflict.
That's a snapshot of the mass grave search results for me. How many publications will post an article after clearing it up with the factual details? I'm gonna guess under 5% of them.
We don't report the news anymore. Publications (on all sides) just want to tell THEIR story. Not THE story. So even after this gets cleared up, IF it gets cleared up, we won't see new stories. And that just leads to more and more hate. The media play their part.
signal boosting BGP disinformation. fortunately, most people realize how absurd it is to try to deny there were mass executions and mass graves at both hospitals.
See this is the very problem. You don't even realize you do it.
The grave dig (by Palestinians) was end of January. The IDF arrived at the hospital mid February.
So you toss around accusations that most likely, are literally impossible. Your bodies are potentially from way before the event, and who knows what from. If you're going to levy serious accusations, have any shred of proof Vic. Even a morsel.
Yes, those are dead bodies. No, you have zero idea how they died. Only that they are dead. Right now we don't even know WHO all of them are (between combatant and non). But it's a bad start on the integrity of this story already....
The tragedy is that they died. But drumming up style points now on potentially false stories? That dishonours their death.
See this is the very problem. You don't even realize you do it.
The grave dig (by Palestinians) was end of January. The IDF arrived at the hospital mid February.
So you toss around accusations that most likely, are literally impossible. Your bodies are potentially from way before the event, and who knows what from. If you're going to levy serious accusations, have any shred of proof Vic. Even a morsel.
Yes, those are dead bodies. No, you have
no BGP's bullshit has already been thoroughly debunked. and that twitter account is a known disinformation spreader.
we have a really good idea of how they died considering the eye witness reports of field executions during the siege on the hospital. and now that they have dug the bodies up, many family members have recognized their loved ones. and we also have the Israelis who bragged about how many people they murdered during that time.
Sorry broseph, the timestamped video of them digging more or less seals it
https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/...
Want to know the precendent? The Gazan Health Ministry and their own releases...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/n...
"Palestinians digging mass graves inside al-Shifa hospital, health official says"
The people are dead Vic. But twisting how they died and who put them there is a low blow. Granted not for you.
A good 60% of this thread is people presenting the propaganda that fits their worldview as incontrovertible fact.
The actual facts almost certainly are less charitable to the IDF than the most partisan pro-Israel "reporting." Ditto for Hamas, Ukraine, and Russia.
Arguing over who killed 40 people or if Israel or Hamas bombed one hospital is ridiculous.
IDF has already admitted to causing 30k deaths and 70k non fatal physical injustices
IDF has already admitted to bombing 40+ hospitals
Why’re you guys arguing the dumbest things? Vic you too
A good 60% of this thread is people presenting the propaganda that fits their worldview as incontrovertible fact.
The actual facts almost certainly are less charitable to the IDF than the most partisan pro-Israel "reporting." Ditto for Hamas, Ukraine, and Russia.
I said this pages and pages back
The lying Vic does is totally unnecessary, and does nothing to help his side. The truths we already know are more than enough. The lies and crying wolf aren't needed to make this look more barbaric than it has been. He has no idea how much he damages his side with this behaviour.
Rafiki,
Who died and when? I'm more than a little skeptical that it was any kind of mass execution, but is your thinking here that it's looking ok for Israel when it's 300 people who died in bombings? It's not.
Who is this "Geo Confirmed" twitter guy and why is he more credible than Al Jazeera?
No one f*cking cares. Kill 'em all.
Rafiki,
Who died and when? I'm more than a little skeptical that it was any kind of mass execution, but is your thinking here that it's looking ok for Israel when it's 300 people who died in bombings? It's not.
Micro I have no idea who died where. We know that of the 30K+, well over 12K are Hamas terrorists. Of those bodies I genuinely can't tell you how many are Hamas. The Gazans do well to bury them to prevent disease. They bury them where they can, which is an absolute nightmare.
But I can't speculate on who that is and how they died. I can speculate why the media loves to run THAT headline. Because it sounds like a bunch of Jews went full SS, gunned down innocents, and then buried them with a dozer. When in fact that isn't remotely close to what happened. And the gap between THAT story, and THE story, is a big deal.
But, as you alluded to, it's a propaganda win for Israel military supporters in this thread. It keeps the conversation off the most glaring thing, which is the total death and destruction. It's almost as useful as a 19 year old in a tent on a college campus as far as that goes.
Broke-brains trying to ascertain who killed who in a war zone. A miracle of modernity
But, as you alluded to, it's a propaganda win for Israel military supporters in this thread. It keeps the conversation off the most glaring thing, which is the total death and destruction. It's almost as useful as a 19 year old in a tent on a college campus as far as that goes.
That is a mischaracterization. And mostly because it means you're either for Hamas killing, or for the IDF killing. Actually, it's way more complicated than that.
I am for the right of Israelis to live safely. I am for the right of Gazans to have a future in the next 100 years beyond whatever the hell this has been since 2005. That's what I'm for.
