Israel/Palestine thread

No. I think the plan is literally to make them so weak they cant do anything to threaten Israel, regardless of their intentions. They can be as outraged and angry and racist and brainwashed as they want. Without advanced weaponry from Iran there is nothing they can do about it.

The Palestinians are useful tools to the Iranian and Qatar regime, so they keep funding the resistance. But everyone else pretty much gave up on the Palestinian project a long time ago, and are just going through the motions. Most of the Kabuki theatre outrage is just antisemites and more generally anti Western nations putting US/Israel in its place.

Leftist students can erect as many tent cities on as many college campuses as they want; but the idea they (or anyone else) are doing anything productive for the Palestinian people is laughable. The world really is more or less done with them unless they radically change their objectives and tactics, which they dont seem inclined to do.

They don't need any help manufacturing hate, The Horror. They teach it in the classroom.

That ought to alert you to a slight challenge in your pacification pipe dream.

Diplomats lol the Islamist attaché has arrived

I have no pacification pipe dream. I believe peace is impossible.

As McChrystal said, "We kill one, we create a dozen."

some of my best friends are black

congrats to the usa and its very fine people for passing this big aid budget!

i believe that the usa will continue to support israel for at least as long as it is surrounded by jerkoffs who want to do holocaust 2

This suggests that getting rid of Hamas is not a good goal, and likely counterproductive to accomplishing the goal they should have set.

Congress and POTUS can change a lot in the future, I am a tad less confident.

But for now yes, doing fine

Then how did pacification happen with Japan and Germany?

Looks to me like if you actually annihilate, and prove you can annihilate, and disintegrate inimical government, and military occupy the ruins until they rebuild a totally different country, you can pacify

This has been discussed several times before. What are the major differences between pacification of Japan and Germany vs regime change attempts in Afghanistan and Iraq? Which is more relevant to what Israel will be doing?

Bernie doing typically Bernie bullshit refusing to make the hard choices and preferring to scream at the sky “there must be a better way” while offering none.

Rest of us living in the real world can only work with the choices we have. And often, doing nothing is a bad choice.

political will

israel cares 10x more about pacifying gaza than 1945 USA did about germany

1945 USA cared 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999x more about pacifying germany than 2015 USA did about afghanistan

there's a fundamental disagreement lurking somewhere in here

victor & co argue that israel should be destroyed because of its what it has done: killing people, flattening infrastructure etc, as noted above by microbob. as far as they are concerned, this is the provocation that has caused the unending violence. if only israel would stop this provocation, peace may be achievable

however, their allies in the iranian regime and hamas HQ think israel should be destroyed because of its nature. the problem with israel's existance, is that israel exists. to put it another way, it is the survival of jews in the holy land which is the provocation, and it is that which has led to unending violence

this fundamental difference is why i think the loose coalition of middle-eastern terrorists and smelly unemployed middle-class white people is eventually doomed to failure

I mean just to start, if they had wanted to even attempt Afghanistan pacification, a lot more of Talibans should have been killed. Including the totality who were in prison when america left Afghanistan

Honestly, the difference is the people, culture and value systems. Consistent with their blank slate theory of humanity, liberals think you can take any group of people, lump them together, call them a state, and they will have the collective desire, will and ability to manifest this. And this just isn't true.

Liberals have constructed this myth of "Palestinian" identity that has no historical basis, past or present. In reality, what you have a is a bunch of large, extended tribal families, most of whom are recent immigrants themselves (in the last couple centuries) from places like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, etc. And most of the people are more interested in their familial/tribal interests than developing a functional nation state. And as in most cases, this value system breeds extreme nepotism, corruption, ignorance and totalitarian impulses.

Throw the current state of extremely conservative religious dogma, the foreign aid system which incentives behavior which does not lead to nation building, and very real restrictions placed by Israel and Egypt due to their own security concerns, and the idea that the Palestinian people themselves could actually form a coherent, functional state under these circumstances is absurd. And the narrative that the only impediment is Israel persecution is equally absurd.

The Jewish survivors of the 20th century pogroms and massacres in Europe and the Middle East made Israel a reality because of who they were and what they believed in. And "Palestine" has been an utter failure for the same reasons.

By "classic" I mean antisemitism that is not defined into existence by conflating opposition to apartheid with Jew hatred.

You seem to believe campus protestors support Hamas. A few do, most don't. These are my people, I know them. Antisemites would be ostracized. And you are not addressing the heavy Jewish participation.

All good. I just told want to listen to people complain that they are being subjected to a double standard.

Some might not be 100% happy with hamas but given they didn't protest against hamas after 10 7 , but they protest against Israel government today, they certainly like hamas more than the Israel government, and that's already a position that is indefensible, and completly morally bankrupt, even if you might try to claim that isn't technically automatically antisemitism 100% of the times.

Basically, not being fully explicitly against hamas is already being an antisemite in my book. If you don't consider Hamas a monstrous organization that only deserves to be annihilated from the face of the earth, then you are antisemite, because not hating antisemites that kills jews and not being willing to destroy them, is being an antisemite.

We've seen pretty much no political will from Israel regarding a long term, large scale occupation. I personally feel like we've seen the exact opposite: they want nothing to do with the aftermath.

I think a major part of this is the "difference in the people" Dunyain mentions. As Luciom mentions, there's a ton of factions who will actively be working against any occupier, often violently, to prevent long term pacification. I don't think what happened in Japan or Germany really applies.

If it wasn't antisemitism, the protesters eruptions would be demanding that hamas immediately release the hostages in exchange for Israel immediately cease firing
But most of the protesters hate Jews and like Victor think oct 7 was a justifiable act by an occupied territory

If they didn't support hamas and hate jews they wouldn't have torn down hostage posters for example

might be true in the WB tbh

well thats pretty much the deal that the Resistance has offered

How??

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/10/middl...

The defense of the monstrous and stupid isn't that this is the real world and we couldn't think of anything else to do.

You may not agree that its monstrous and stupid but that is where some of us are coming from.