Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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What is now the Arab world used to be one of the most diverse places in the world. Now it is mostly Arab Muslim religious ethnostates. Israel is by far the most diverse country in the Middle East, including millions of Arabs living peacefully within.
Remember, in Bill Haywood's world the little purple dot is the oppressors and colonizers, and the giant green area is the victims. To make the joke even more obscene, the green area actively
It's this position we always seem to just get deflected away from. And the best anyone does is "yes that's also bad"
But the idea that all that gets is "that's also bad" and Israel and Jews get THIS, is the very nature of the issue.
lol, if you lump all Muslims from Morocco to Sudan together, Muslim nations magically have zero ethnic diversity!
That isn't a map of the Muslim world. Such a map would by much, much larger. That is just the Arab world. Most of those places had little to no Arabs 1500 years ago and were extremely diverse in language, culture and peoples. All gone now.
I should also point out due to current aggressive, brutal ethnic cleansing in Africa the green area is expanding.
Anyways, it really does feel like a bit that the tiny little purple dot has by far the most diversity, and the narrative it is the racist, oppressive ethnostate.
Dunyan,
80 years? April 1944. Ok, that's far enough. May and June of 44 were a spike in killing and probably more than half a million Jews were murdered. Do a map of Europe and what happened to Jews there in the last 80 years.
Right, you've left out Indonesia, which is quite easily the most diverse nation on the planet.
Trolly, the Indonesia card here does absolutely nothing to put a dent in his point.
There is a wicked double standard here because Israelis and Jews are too white for the left. Let's just own this finally.
It's this position we always seem to just get deflected away from. And the best anyone does is "yes that's also bad"
But the idea that all that gets is "that's also bad" and Israel and Jews get THIS, is the very nature of the issue.
Christians are persecuted in those areas too. Lots of Coptics have been driven out in that time period. "It is also bad" is a good answer and Jews, like Christians and Muslims, can also live in much of the rest of the world. That doesn't mean I'm saying Jews shouldn't be in Israel, but it's not the only place and despite the idea that it makes the world safe for Jews, it's actually made the world less safe for Jews for a while now.
I think that supporting apartheid and spying on activists is pretty good refutation of the ADL
you need to read better
"Can't refute, ad hominem"
"can't refute, ad hominem"
I do not believe "oppress" is an accurate description of what Israel did. But whatever they did they did not do it to the entire green area. They did it to one place which would need to be zoomed in drastically on that map to see.
That is not one giant monolithic area.
Dunyan,
80 years? April 1944. Ok, that's far enough. May and June of 44 were a spike in killing and probably more than half a million Jews were murdered. Do a map of Europe and what happened to Jews there in the last 80 years.
And if European nations were firing missiles, rockets and drones into Israel right now, while accusing Israel of ethnic cleansing with absolutely no self awareness, it would be even more obscene.
But they aren't.
Ftr I always felt the ADL was an important and necessary organization.
Seeing genocide vic’s frothing at their existence is great stuff. Further confirms my feelings.
"Can't refute, ad hominem"
"can't refute, ad hominem"
I do not believe "oppress" is an accurate description of what Israel did. But whatever they did they did not do it to the entire green area. They did it to one place which would need to be zoomed in drastically on that map to see.
That is not one giant monolithic area.
no your source is complete garbage and that article, among others proves. thats not an ad hominem. rather those are facts as to why you should not trust or perpetuate the ADL.
an adhominem would be something like me saying that the reason you keep using these lying propaganda and spy outlets is bc you are either unable to analyize information or are just an Imperialist reactionary bootlickering warmonger.
Vic, how many KKK rallies have you been to?
Trolly, the Indonesia card here does absolutely nothing to put a dent in his point.
There is a wicked double standard here because Israelis and Jews are too white for the left. Let's just own this finally.
Own what? It's a Muslim nation with a democratic government, recognition of religious minorities, and extraordinary ethnic/linguistic diversity. It's a refutation of all the gross Islamophobic stereotypes your crude Nazi ally Kelhus likes to toss out.
no your source is complete garbage and that article, among others proves. thats not an ad hominem. rather those are facts as to why you should not trust or perpetuate the ADL.
an adhominem would be something like me saying that the reason you keep using these lying propaganda and spy outlets is bc you are either unable to analyize information or are just an Imperialist reactionary bootlickering warmonger.
There's two arguments being put forth here. Mine, and the one from the ADL which I believe supports mine. You are currently in "can't refute, ad hominem" mode against the ADL's argument that antisemitism has risen since October 7th. (Seriously how does anyone deny that?)
If you were to say what you're totally not saying about me being an "Imperialist reactionary bootlickering warmonger." then that would be "can't refute, ad hominem" to me as you often do when you can't actually refute my arguments.
"can't refute, ad hominem"
We've discussed ITT how few countries in the region are pleased with Iran. We've talked about how UAE, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia are all willing to open diplomacy with Israel, and how Saudi Arabia's normalization with Israel had a role on October 7th. The green area represents a lot of different countries which all have their own agency.
I’ve had some anti-Semetic **** happen to me and my family since 10/7. Doesn’t really bother me, and I don’t feel threatened (most anti-Semite’s are big-talking pussies). Can def see why people would threatened by this stuff though.
Of course guys like Vic will claim it’s made up or that people should toughen up or it’s all a Zionist conspiracy.
There's two arguments being put forth here. Mine, and the one from the ADL which I believe supports mine. You are currently in "can't refute, ad hominem" mode against the ADL's argument that antisemitism has risen since October 7th. (Seriously how does anyone deny that?)
If you were to say what you're totally not saying about me being an "Imperialist reactionary bootlickering warmonger." then that would be "can't refute, ad hominem" to me as
just like I dont need to refute lies from Donald Trump. or Putin. or Goebbels. I dont need to refute lies from non-credible propaganda outlets.
just like I dont need to refute lies from Donald Trump. or Putin. or Goebbels. I dont need to refute lies from non-credible propaganda outlets.
Guys, we have been over this. Victor has done the research. Pro Islamist propaganda speaks the truth, and all western media is liars that should be ignored.
Take this evidence with a big grain of salt because we don't know how they are defining an antisemitic incident. The ADL considers anti-Zionism as antisemitism and their poll probably does too. So calling for the West Bank Palestinians to have a vote for the government that controls them is pre-defined as antisemitism.
Bill
I've separated you from the Victors in this thread because i believe you actually are against Zionism but not an antisemite
But your refusal to show an ounce of sympathy towards what Jews are experiencing combined with your "they had seders so they cannot be antisemites" I'm beginning to think i gave you too much credit
There's two arguments being put forth here. Mine, and the one from the ADL which I believe supports mine. You are currently in "can't refute, ad hominem" mode against the ADL's argument that antisemitism has risen since October 7th. (Seriously how does anyone deny that?)
.
BGP don't even worry about the ADF, the FBI has it off the charts too
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/31/politics/...
FBI director: Antisemitism reaching ‘historic level’ in US
“In fact, our statistics would indicate that for a group that represents only about 2.4% of the American public, they account for something like 60% of all religious-based hate crimes,” Wray said of the Jewish American population.
Think about that ratio for a second. Staggering. There is an obvious problem rotting in the bottom of all this. Thank goodness some of this thread is starting to see it.
The FBI are paid off by the Zionists obviously.
How stupid can you be??!?!?
I said I didn't know (I don't go there, and I've not seen data). But at Columbia specifically, it looks like there's a pretty good amount of support in what appears to be a majority position. Being in the majority position never hurts.
Mostly my point is that everyone telling us how little antisemitisim and fear there is in the Jewish community, is out to lunch.
Now if there's data on safety for Palestinians on campus and you post it, hey ma
you can tell which position is in the "majority" by which side the cops and the ****ing US congress are beating people up for.. hope that helps
i'll start believing adl type surveys when they stop listing every single protest as antisemitism.
Zionism is the idea of Jews going to Israel/Palestine (maybe Judea would be the most correct term). It doesn't have to mean driving anyone out or denying anyone else's rights, but leave that aside for a minute. What is it for a Christian American or European to be a Zionist? It's people who want to expel Jews, which is why people who wanted to get rid of Jews have supported Zionists in the past.
Fundamental Christians do not want to expel jews from isreal in this lifetime
They want to be able to visit Bethlehem and Jerusalem, which they could not do from 1948-1967, and they want the Jews to control Jerusalem so their messiah can return. They aren't trying to kick jews out wtf are you talking about
you can tell which position is in the "majority" by which side the cops and the ****ing US congress are beating people up for.. hope that helps
i'll start believing adl type surveys when they stop listing every single protest as antisemitism.
This may shock you, but Jews don’t give a **** what you think.
Your bias is clear.
