The costs of trans visibility

The costs of trans visibility

Yesterday, Dylan Mulvaney broke her silence: https://www.tiktok.com/@dylanmulvaney/vi....

For context, this is a trans influencer who built a 10 million strong following on TikTok. She took a brand deal with budweiser to post an ad on an instagram, and the anti-trans right went absolutely ballistic, calling for a boycott, condemning the company, and to some perhaps unknowable degree it influenced that Budweiser sales dropped by a 1/4 and

. Dylan speaks more personally about the effect of the hatred on her.

What strikes me about this story is that it is just about visibility. This isn't inclusion in sports or gender-affirming care for minors, it was just that a trans person was visible. This wasn't even visibility in a TV commerical that a poor right-winger is forced to see, it was an ad on her own instagram page. We're all in our own social media algorithm influenced bubbles, but from my vantage point it really has seemed that in the last year or so things have just gotten worse for trans people and the backlash to even minor visibility is growing.

We need to do better.

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30 June 2023 at 04:48 PM
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Aside from whether or not I oppose prisons generally, I do not oppose women only prisons. So, in addition to just making things up, you're wrong.

But, you call yourself a libertarian. I was completely correct when I said "You clearly don't want any of those discriminations forced by government to be allowed." And you'll notice I said "forced by government", so your comment about private insurance was completely irrelevant. I understand what you said and what you implied and what libertarianism is.

I don't think your commitment to things like not having laws about the percentage of women on corporate boards is very strong if you're going to use that as an argument about trans, unless you're either being disingenuous or your libertarian principles are just overwhelmed by religious fanaticism or a sadistic and depraved love of conformity and punishment.


The comment re private insurance is relevant because some countries do not allow companies to discriminate on the basis of biological sex, others allow pro women discrimination but then you have to accept trans as well lol


by Luciom P

The comment re private insurance is relevant because some countries do not allow companies to discriminate on the basis of biological sex, others allow pro women discrimination but then you have to accept trans as well lol

It's not relevant because I didn't say anything about it. Obviously I expect you would think that it's okay for a private companies to discriminate.


by Luciom P

? I think being trans means being convinced you are of the opposite sex, semantically, consistently in time with no wavering.

I do accept people exist like that.

I don't say transgender women because I refuse radical leftist warping of words, you can't be a woman semantically without XY chromosomes , and the left doesn't decide semantics.

I think what you think you are should never have any meaning for others, others should never be forced to

What do you mean, in the deepest sense, when you say “you”? Is it based on bio sex? For those people caught up in this trans reality, “you” at the core is gendered and disembodied.

Part of the reason why trans activists are so dug in is because they realize “you” and “I” transcend bio sex, and they’re right about that. When someone comes into the discussion associating gender with bio sex, they see it as regressive because they are interpreting it as associating “I” with bio sex.

At root, this is a disagreement about what “you” and “I” mean in the deepest sense. Only after this is sorted, can there be the possibility of coupling gender with bio sex for those in trans reality.

Until then, bringing up bio sex is counterproductive. If you do actually believe that “you” and “I” is based primarily on bio sex, then sorry to say, those stuck in trans reality are actually closer to the truth than you are, and you are actually ceding to them the moral high ground to dig their heels in.


by microbet P

How about just arguing the government should treat people equally? That'd be the libertarian thing to do.

I believe in this. But I guess I'm not fully libertarian, because I think businesses should have to treat people equally also. I don't want to go back to separate restrooms for negroes.


by craig1120 P

What do you mean, in the deepest sense, when you say “you”? Is it based on bio sex? For those people caught up in this trans reality, “you” at the core is gendered and disembodied.

Part of the reason why trans activists are so dug in is because they realize “you” and “I” transcend bio sex, and they’re right about that. When someone comes into the discussion associating gender with bio sex, they see it as regressive because they are interpret

This doesn’t address the, I believe small minority, who operate in trans reality and believe gender is solely a social construct. These people are lightweights and ultimately non factors in this disagreement in my view.


In trans reality, I and you are gendered with one gender and not the other. Thus, the panic about a man being stuck in a female body.

To understand I and you in the deepest sense is to realize that I and you transcend gender altogether. That doesn’t mean we don’t identify with gender identities; we clearly do. It’s just not who you are in the truest sense.

Once this is realized and accepted, then it becomes unnecessary to discriminate against your bio-sex-gender. The pain and struggle can then be decoupled from gender politics altogether and treated properly through the lens of self + soul.


by chillrob P

I believe in this. But I guess I'm not fully libertarian, because I think businesses should have to treat people equally also. I don't want to go back to separate restrooms for negroes.

Me neither, but I'm not the one running around saying I'm a libertarian while constantly supporting government intervention.

I submit corporations or any organization where the government protects the owners by shielding them from liability don't have any rights at all and the rules made for them should just be whatever is best for society.


The concept that corporation=person is definitely one that has been shown to be very wrong IMO.


Do women get quoted better car insurance rates?

Shopping for it now and considering a transition.

---Ok older women pay higher rates but younger men pay more.


good friend of mine works in car insurance, says that the single best way to determine risk factors are age, sex, & race but they can only use age because it's be a pr nightmare if it came out that asian women were charged higher insurance


I guess it could have changed, but when I was in my teens to early 20s I know that young women definitely were offered lower rates than young men because they were considered lower risk drivers.

I'm not sure how their liability per mile compared, but I assume young women generally drive fewer miles than young men.


by chillrob P

I guess it could have changed, but when I was in my teens to early 20s I know that young women definitely were offered lower rates than young men because they were considered lower risk drivers.

I'm not sure how their liability per mile compared, but I assume young women generally drive fewer miles than young men.

Historically, men drive drunk more often than women, not sure how you measure aggresive versus defensive driving. Women supoosedly text more than men in recent years the but data is a little blurry. Distracted driving defintiely has to be the key factor at play.


When I lived in New Jersey, a male had to be 28 (I think that's right) to be considered an adult for car insurance purposes.


by Didace P

When I lived in New Jersey, a male had to be 28 (I think that's right) to be considered an adult

Sounds about right.


by microbet P

Sounds about right.

Though I do like to semi-troll people with "you're not really an adult until you've raised children."


by chillrob P

I guess it could have changed, but when I was in my teens to early 20s I know that young women definitely were offered lower rates than young men because they were considered lower risk drivers.

I'm not sure how their liability per mile compared, but I assume young women generally drive fewer miles than young men.

women are far less likely to be involved in fatal accidents but going to get in a lot more minor accidents

however, if you remove accidents caused by reckless or drunken driving then it flips - men are then considerably safer drivers in fatal accidents as well

this is because the outliers of repeat drunk drivers and people who will go 80 through a 35 zone are overwhelmingly men

so a new driver who's a male could be reckless or a drunk in the making but by 30 you have enough data on him to have a more accurate estimation of whether or not he engages in those dangerous activities


by rickroll P

women are far less likely to be involved in fatal accidents but going to get in a lot more minor accidents

however, if you remove accidents caused by reckless or drunken driving then it flips - men are then considerably safer drivers in fatal accidents as well

this is because the outliers of repeat drunk drivers and people who will go 80 through a 35 zone are overwhelmingly men

so a new driver who's a male could be reckless or a drunk in the m

This is very interesting, do you have a source for this?

In the UK a few days ago, with the impending election The Muslim Vote, a Muslim campaign group made a list of 12 demands to the Labour leadership in order to gain their support for the general election. One of them did make me smile:

Ensure insurance quotes don’t cost more for someone called “Muhammad”

If this is indeed true, I suspect it's because people called "Muhammad" are involved in more accidents than the mean.


freakanomics tackled this pretty well
https://freakonomics.com/2010/03/who-dri...

Women were thus 12 percent more likely to be in crashes per mile driven. This is confirmed by another paper (gated), by Dawn L. Massie, Kenneth L. Campbell, and Allan F. Williams, which found women were involved in 16 percent more accidents than men on a per mile driven basis.
We might want to think not just about accidents, but about the severity of those accidents. Here again, it doesn’t look good for the ladies. Massie et al. found that for each mile driven women were 26 percent more likely than men to be in crashes involving injuries.

they then talk about that being offset by men being in 80% of fatal accidents


but insurance companies are going to dive deeper than this

this breaks it down pretty well

https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-sta...

men also more likely to die on a bicycle, die as a pedestrian, etc we as a group are more reckless

Seventy-two percent of all motor vehicle crash deaths in 2021 were males. Males accounted for 72% of passenger vehicle driver deaths, 48% of passenger vehicle passenger deaths, 97% of large truck driver deaths, 67% of large truck passenger deaths, 70% of pedestrian deaths, 86% of bicyclist deaths and 92% of motorcyclist deaths.

take the last 5 or so years of driving fatalities


that just covers alcohol


https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/spe...

Almost One-Third of Traffic Fatalities Are Speed-Related Crashes is the title of the Department of Transportation article above

While I can't find anything solid that's not hidden behind a scholarly journal (but they do agree the majority of those receiving speeding tickets are men), skimming news reports and SEO articles for law firms you'll commonly see around 70% of speeding tickets are issued to men

So using the table above we get these for male deaths per year not involving a DUI since 2015


so we know that there's going to be some overlap of those who died while drunk and speeding but it won't be 100%

so we take all the non DUI deaths and merge them again because we need to pull out ones for speeding, to account for the overlap i brought it down to 25%

from there we bin by .7 and .3 and we get these numbers of clean deaths which are much closer



factor that men drive much more than women
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8...


you'll see men put on nearly twice as many miles than women, this is largely due to couples tending to default to the male as the driver - something the freakonomics article also discusses

so you have men driving at a 1.63:1 ratio to women

that 2015-2021 estimation of non reckless non drunken fatal accidents break down to 44,362 male and 21,715 female

it's a bit more severe than 1.63 as it's a little more than 2:1 - but it's now much more in line with actual driving and after all is still a rough estimate

tldr i trust what the friend who works as an actuary isn't making stuff up - my assumption is that they factor in that a lot of those male deaths are suicides as a lot of people choose single car accident going full speed into a tree or wall are people who want to end it but don't want it known as a suicide for various reasons

i mean, if i were going to end it i'd definitely choose that route just so my friends and family wouldn't be distraught over not catching the warning signs and doing something about it sooner etc etc - but alas my name's not Muhammad so I'll go down in glory in hookers and coke binge in Mexico instead


Excellent post, thanks 😀


Do transgender infants belong at pride parades?


by jbouton P

Do transgender infants belong at pride parades?

Infants can neither express gender identity nor have understanding of their own gender, so this smells like a troll post.


by ganstaman P

Infants can neither express gender identity nor have understanding of their own gender, so this smells like a troll post.

I don't know why you over mod me.

Its a perfectly relevant example from today's time, about parents who raise their kids as non-binary etc.

Can I post too?


It couldn’t be your horrible posting and your inability to follow directions?


by ganstaman P

Infants can neither express gender identity nor have understanding of their own gender, so this smells like a troll post.

Ok so what would you do to a parent who brings an infant to a gay pride?


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