Israel/Palestine thread

Israel/Palestine thread

Think this merits its own thread...

Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..

AM YISRAEL CHAI.


[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD

2+2 Rules

Posting guidelines for Politics and Soci...


These are our baselines. We're not reinventing the wheel here. If you aren't sure if something is acceptable to post, its better to ask first. If you think someone is posting something that violates the above guidelines, please report it or PM me rather than responding in kind.

To reiterate some of the points:

1. No personal attacks. This is a broad instruction, but, in general, we want to focus on attacking an argument rather than the poster making it. It is fine to say a post is antisemitic; it is not okay to call someone an antisemite over and over. If you believe someone is making antisemitic posts, report them or PM me. The same goes for calling people "baby killers" and "genocide lovers". You are allowed to argue that an action supports genocide or that the consequences of certain policies results in the death of children, but we are no longer going to be speaking to one another's intentions. It is not productive to the conversation and doesn't further any debate.

2. Racist posts and other bigoted statements that target a particular group or individuals of such groups with derogatory comments are not allowed. This should not need further explanation.

3. Graphic Images need to be in spoilers with a trigger warning.

4. Wishing Harm on other posters will result in an immediate timeout.

5. Genocidal statements such as "Kill 'em all" etc, are no longer permissible in the thread.

If anyone has any questions about the above, please PM me. I don't want a discussion about the rules to derail the content of this thread. If anything needs clarifying, I will do that in this thread.

Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]

07 October 2023 at 09:33 PM
Reply...

23612 Replies

i
a

by microbet P

You start out with no, but then it becomes yes. That's lying.

And Biden isn't permanently or completely stopping arms deliveries to Israel, not by a longshot.

Sometimes no means yes. Just like in dating 😉


by metsandfinsfan P

Ceasefire talks officially on hold because of rafah

Israel was never agreeing to anything before they felt done with Rafah.


by The Horror P

Israel was never agreeing to anything before they felt done with Rafah.

Nothing permanent. A 6 week cease-fire was possible. But nothing close to the terms that hamas agreed to


by metsandfinsfan P

We can ignore the last 2 sentences and the post is spot on

You think?


by microbet P

You start out with no, but then it becomes yes. That's lying.

And Biden isn't permanently or completely stopping arms deliveries to Israel, not by a longshot.

So after Israel destroys rafah they will send ammunition? Maybe after the election but he really cannot before now


by metsandfinsfan P

Nothing permanent. A 6 week cease-fire was possible. But nothing close to the terms that hamas agreed to

You think Israel would've agreed to all of the hostages and leave Hamas to recharge and recruit for six weeks?


by 57 On Red P

You think?

If i ignore the part starting with "Remember " until the end, it's hard to argue anything he said

The last 2 sentences are beyond ridiculous


The protests on college campuses aren't generally radical at all and Biden doesn't have sway with them one way or the other.


by The Horror P

You think Israel would've agreed to all of the hostages and leave Hamas to recharge and recruit for six weeks?

If they got all the hostages? Probably

It's bad strategically for them to leave before finishing the job but to get the hostages back .. i think so. But then 6 weeks later it's all in


by The Horror P

The protests on college campuses aren't generally radical at all and Biden doesn't have sway with them one way or the other.

Taking over buildings, asking for pledges to get into buildings, sleeping in tents on the lawn of your campus is definitely radical


I don't blame biden for the protests. He should denounce them more but i agree he's not to blame so you are correct there


The US doesn't have a leg to stand on when criticising the level of attacks on Gaza when they first bombed the **** out of, then invaded, Iraq after 9/11.


by metsandfinsfan P

If i ignore the part starting with "Remember " until the end, it's hard to argue anything he said

The last 2 sentences are beyond ridiculous

'Thousands' is hyperbole in regard to the death toll on Oct 7, and 'leading the world straight into World War III' is ludicrous and irresponsible hyperbole as well. 'Crooked Joe' -- well, you do wonder about the Biden family sometimes.


by metsandfinsfan P

If they got all the hostages? Probably

It's bad strategically for them to leave before finishing the job but to get the hostages back .. i think so. But then 6 weeks later it's all in

If you're not gonna finish the job now, the shock and awe just looks worse.

by metsandfinsfan P

Taking over buildings, asking for pledges to get into buildings, sleeping in tents on the lawn of your campus is definitely radical

Most of the protests haven't involved building takeovers or pledges. Just marching and encampments. They're college kids. They do stuff like this. They have no skin in the game, yet. They can afford to do it. Now, leaving a job to camp out and whatnot would be radical, but most are still attending classes and if they aren't, who cares? It's a semester or a couple of quarters wasted. They'll mostly make it up.

What I'm saying is that Trump's followers largely don't understand this, he knows this, and is exploiting it. Many of his followers didn't complete a bachelor's degree and those who did were antipathic to all protesting while they were in school because they were right-wingers who supported Iraq or Vietnam or whatever it was that their colleagues were protesting. Don't fall into that trap.

Not supporting their cause doesn't make them radical. Bear in mind that as an adult with a career and responsibilities and such, this seems radical to camp out on the lawn, but there's a lot of groupthink involved among people with nothing at risk to do so.


by The Horror P

Israel was never agreeing to anything before they felt done with Rafah.

they were negotiating in bad faith the entire time. they are brazen liars.


by 57 On Red P

'Thousands' is hyperbole in regard to the death toll on Oct 7, and 'leading the world straight into World War III' is ludicrous and irresponsible hyperbole as well. 'Crooked Joe' -- well, you do wonder about the Biden family sometimes.

Ww3 is complete bullshit I agree but the first half is "any decent leader in the west" content


by jalfrezi P

The US doesn't have a leg to stand on when criticising the level of attacks on Gaza when they first bombed the **** out of, then invaded, Iraq after 9/11.

Maybe, but then how could anyone who self identifies with Marxism or communism in general ever talk?


by Luciom P

Maybe, but then how could anyone who self identifies with Marxism or communism in general ever talk?

Replace Marxism with capitalism and you get the same paradox.

The common denominator isn't violence within Marxism, communism, or capitalism. None are inherently violent. The common denominator is sycophants abusing those terms to remove their actual meanings. And you contribute to burning language down when you say stuff like this.

Marxists and Rothbardians alike are pretty vehemently anti-war and anti-state violence. The powers that have been just happened to not be while calling themselves communists and capitalists. Power doesn't define a philosophy. The philosophy does.

I'll gladly get into this if you wanna start a new thread: "Is Marxism inherently violent?" or something like that. And we can have the discussion using actual Marxian philosophy versus playing semantics.

Are there violent Marxists who take utilitarianism to extreme, disgusting levels? Sure, but same can said of corporatists. I'd say that neither truly represent socialism/communism or free markets.

Many wars have been fought brutally and unjustly in the name of Christianity. That doesn't make Chrisitianity evil. Those wars don't invalidate the prince of peace who said to do unto others and such. Those wars are just proof that those weren't real Christians. I'd say the same of communists and capitalists.


by The Horror P

Replace Marxism with capitalism and you get the same paradox.

The common denominator isn't violence within Marxism, communism, or capitalism. None are inherently violent. The common denominator is sycophants abusing those terms to remove their actual meanings. And you contribute to burning language down when you say stuff like this.

Marxists and Rothbardians alike are pretty vehemently anti-war and anti-state violence. The power that have bee

There is no paradox using capitalism, because capitalism improved the lives of so many people so much any decent person would just brag of being pro capitalism, and gain the higher moral ground over anyone disagreeing automatically.

While communisms never worked positively, no instance of it doing more for the people than it's absence, it's the rare case of Pareto inefficient solution: always strictly worse than alternatives.

The best Marxist is by far a worse human being than the worst capitalist


Bibi's response to joe's aid comment

Amen


lol at comparing this to the holocaust. just craven scumbag country.


If a Palestinian breaks a leg because he was cursing Jews and not paying attention while walking it's the Holocaust -victor


the Holocaust was perpetuated by European white people 80 years ago. its a sick joke that it is being invoked to justify the murder of Palestinian people who had nothing to do with it, nor did their ancestors.



by Luciom P

Maybe, but then how could anyone who self identifies with Marxism or communism in general ever talk?

Stop trolling, Lucifer. I've never identified as either of those things.

There's only one person on this forum who revels in the idea of sending thousands to their deaths for disagreeing with their government and that person is you, fascist.


Reply...