Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
Posting guidelines for Politics and Soci...
These are our baselines. We're not reinventing the wheel here. If you aren't sure if something is acceptable to post, its better to ask first. If you think someone is posting something that violates the above guidelines, please report it or PM me rather than responding in kind.
To reiterate some of the points:
1. No personal attacks. This is a broad instruction, but, in general, we want to focus on attacking an argument rather than the poster making it. It is fine to say a post is antisemitic; it is not okay to call someone an antisemite over and over. If you believe someone is making antisemitic posts, report them or PM me. The same goes for calling people "baby killers" and "genocide lovers". You are allowed to argue that an action supports genocide or that the consequences of certain policies results in the death of children, but we are no longer going to be speaking to one another's intentions. It is not productive to the conversation and doesn't further any debate.
2. Racist posts and other bigoted statements that target a particular group or individuals of such groups with derogatory comments are not allowed. This should not need further explanation.
3. Graphic Images need to be in spoilers with a trigger warning.
4. Wishing Harm on other posters will result in an immediate timeout.
5. Genocidal statements such as "Kill 'em all" etc, are no longer permissible in the thread.
If anyone has any questions about the above, please PM me. I don't want a discussion about the rules to derail the content of this thread. If anything needs clarifying, I will do that in this thread.
Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
Pictures of the babies are awful, but they seem necessary based on a lot of the posting in here. Maybe every single person killed in Israel and Gaza deserves a picture.
Was Cheney behind Sandy Hook? lol?
The difference here, as Vic pointed out, is that you have people here denying that atrocities are taking place. People aren't denying that serial killers do sick twisted stuff (and the Las Vegas event is a special example because it's super shady-- I would want to see the pictures but we won't ever).
I don't see anyone denying that children and civilians have been killed. Of course that is true. That occurs every time military force is used on a wide scale. I see people denying that children are being targeted, but you don't defeat that argument by posting a gruesome photo of a dead child.
And maybe Dick Cheney too. I'm ok with that.
But they don't really have anything to be offended by because they know the truth.
Wow. Calling them crisis actors in relation to their kids being murdered might just be ever so slightly offensive to Sandy Hook parents, Lucky. So I would opine that they actually would have something to be offended about. Courts thought so too regarding Alex Jones and tapped him for a right few quid and all.
Hamas are beyond the pale, I agree. It's important to remember that terrorists don't arise out of nothing but almost always from a legitimate grievance, and the way to end the terror is usually to negotiate, so let's do that instead of demonising the Palestinian cause.
The problem with this viewpoint is there is a lot of bad stuff going on in the world, so obsession with Israel while ignoring the rest shows you aren't really working from any first principle. You are just biased against Israel for whatever reason.
And second, hand waiving away horrible Arab behavior 100% ensures there will never be a satisfactory resolution. The onus cant be completely on Israel. That is just reality. Any actual solution has to acknowledge Arab bad behavior and correct for it. Period.
The terror attacks were very bad but an inevitable result of talking people's land from them. How did you expect Palestinians to react after so many decades?
No one slates the ANC or PIRA, only Hamas because they are Muslims, the world's new de facto bogey men.
Nobody took their land
Gaza has their own government and if terrorist weren't in office can actually become a nation
I don't see anyone denying that children and civilians have been killed. Of course that is true. That occurs every time military force is used on a wide scale. I see people denying that children are being targeted, but you don't defeat that argument by posting a gruesome photo of a dead child.
bruv they have a name for it and its been tossed around in this thread many times
Pallyworld
The problem with this viewpoint is there is a lot of bad stuff going on in the world, so obsession with Israel while ignoring the rest shows you aren't really working from any first principle. You are just biased against Israel for whatever reason.
And second, hand waiving away horrible Arab behavior 100% ensures there will never be a satisfactory resolution. The onus cant be completely on Israel. That is just reality. Any actual solutio
This is the Israel/Palestine thread. What do you expect me to be talking about here?
fwiw I tried talking to people about the Rwanda genocide at the time but no one is ever interested in Africa unless it involves consumable poverty porn for libs to virtue signal over.
All land has been taken. The silliest argument ever is that some land in the Levant belongs to someone because Britain gave it to them. The land was Britain's to give?
This is the Israel/Palestine thread. What do you expect me to be talking about here?
fwiw I tried talking to people about the Rwanda genocide at the time but no one is ever interested in Africa unless it involves consumable poverty porn for libs to virtue signal over.
Dunyan consistently ignores this and that a thread/argument requires two opposing sides to continue. Ignoring reason is his first principle.
This is the Israel/Palestine thread. What do you expect me to be talking about here?
fwiw I tried talking to people about the Rwanda genocide at the time but no one is ever interested in Africa unless it involves consumable poverty porn.
Ok. Fair enough. Lets focus on the 2nd part. On top of Hamas, we have Hezbollah, Houthis, PIJ, Lions Den and Iran and all of its proxies scattered across Syria and Iraq. And generally, Arab public sentiment which is extremely antisemitic and glorifies violence against Jews.
Blowback goes both ways. As long as they keep doing their "Kill the infidel" routine; Israel isn't going to play nice. That is just reality. All the pressure cant be on Israel to unilaterally play nice. This is especially evident given the 1400 year history of this region.
Hamas are beyond the pale, I agree. It's important to remember that terrorists don't arise out of nothing but almost always from a legitimate grievance, and the way to end the terror is usually to negotiate, so let's do that instead of demonising the Palestinian cause.
On the surface that sounds quite reasonable, but it assumes that Hamas thinks like you or me. The likes of the IRA ETA FARC- these groups were open to actual real negotiation. Hamas don't appear to be open to any form of actual meaningful negotiation that could ultimately benefit them and the Palestinian people. With every proper negotiation comes compromise and concession and swallowing one's pride, from both parties. Such things seem an alien concept to Hamas from what I can see. I would ideally love to see a two state solution that could live in peace but Hamas don't seem willing to share and don't seem to have any game plan other than river to the sea.
I'm not sure you can actually negotiate with them the way you could with the other aforementioned groups.
Hamas don't appear to be open to any form of actual meaningful negotiation that could ultimately benefit them and the Palestinian people.
pure ignorance
All land has been taken. The silliest argument ever is that some land in the Levant belongs to someone because Britain gave it to them. The land was Britain's to give?
You could make this comment about every nation. If you want to argue no land should be owned and nations shouldn't exist, that is fine. But the rest of us are living inside the magic show and are dealing with the rules put in place.
And except in very bad places like Russia, Turkey, Pakistan and China which operate on the "might makes right" principle: those rules more or less acknowledge that when millions of people have been living on a land for generations and have set up a functional nation state, that it is their land.
On the surface that sounds quite reasonable, but it assumes that Hamas thinks like you or me. The likes of the IRA ETA FARC- these groups were open to actual real negotiation. Hamas don't appear to be open to any form of actual meaningful negotiation that could ultimately benefit them and the Palestinian people. With every proper negotiation comes compromise and concession and swallowing one's pride, from both parties. Such things seem an a
Hamas more or less functions as a mafia group that has been running the same playbook given to them by Arafat and the PLO. Create problems, and then demand bribes to temporarily settle the problems. And rinse and repeat over and over. And the world has more or less payed them off every time, so they have no incentive to change their business model.
The world needs to deal with Hamas the same way we dealt with Italian America mafia. Stop rewarding bad behavior and have zero tolerance for the worst behavior. And then they can decide to change their business model to survive. If Hamas wants to go legit like the Saudi's that is their prerogative. But if they don't, crush them.
remember when Dun and rafki claimed they werent using quadcopter drones to snipe and machine gun people?
this guy is a UK Dr and runs a University. hes proly lying tho right?
