Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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It's been debunked over and over
Israel brought in incubators and helped get babies who needed incubators out of gaza and into working hospitals
I don't understand. We were told this was a story everyone knew, that was definitely true?
I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt when they show the evidence.
Sorry I totally missed this story when it happened. Can you link me to where every baby in an incubator there died?
Truly I missed that one then
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/202...
this will surely plug the Hasbara firehose
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/202...
this will surely plug the Hasbara firehose
Yours is paywalled for me, so I googled the title. Lead me to this
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/poli...
Before those new stories appear, it is important to take a close look at one such article from the last pause. Published in the Washington Post late on December 2 and updated the following day, this is the gripping saga of what happened three weeks earlier to a handful of Palestinian infants in the neonatal intensive care unit (NICU) of Gaza City’s al-Nasr Children’s Hospital when the facility’s staff and patients were forced to evacuate on November 10—a story so powerful and emotive that it made headlines around the world.
The 1,368-word article by reporters Miriam Berger, Evan Hill and Hazem Balousha is, in reality, a mash-up of three interconnected stories.
The bottom line is that the article exemplifies an abuse of the trust of readers, who would expect a newspaper of the Post’s standing to flag each of these problems.
From the very beginning, something about the Post’s story of the decomposed babies left in the al-Nasr Children’s Hospital NICU seemed odd. To be sure, one could not but be deeply moved by the terrible fate of the Palestinian infants, as innocent as any civilians in wartime could possibly be. But just like the earlier story about premature Palestinian babies in Israeli hospitals, this story was also built on anonymous sources—in this case a single unnamed male nurse who, according to the article, was associated with the medical aid group Doctors Without Borders.
What they then explain to totally dismantle and discredit the story you linked to Victor (in about 5 different ways), is about as big a dunking on as I've read in some time. So I do appreciate the exercise. And you've shown us all how important it is to fact check these things. I encourage the good people of this thread to read the bottom 2/3 of my link. It's pretty wow.
The truth is always out there, if you look.
Insert Sartre quote
Right so stuff just means whatever one wishes it to mean regardless of facts? Is PW correct so? It's racist to call Hamas terrorists cuz they're brown people? Even if they aren't brown people, as brown has FA to do with their actual skin colour and stuff means whatever you say it means?
...Okay.
Stop making stuff up and attributing it to me.
Sartre treated de Beauviour like ****
If the KKK had been democratically elected to rule all the southern states on a platform of destroying the Northern states, was supplied heavy weaponry by outside actors for the purpose of attacking the North, and used such weapons to periodically attack the North over 20 years, I am pretty confident the strategy after 20 years of this wouldn't be "moderation"
It's not a perfect analogy. But certainly, many open racists and sympathizers were elected to office, like George Wallace.
If you voted for George Wallace, would it be morally reasonable to execute your entire family and blow up the nearest hospital?
To state the obvious, this is an analogy that bends over backwards to be fair to Isreal. For example, blacks had to actually live under the rule of people like George Wallace as second class citizens. To this day, Southern states provide minimal assistance to the poor, since many are black, and this causes people to die. Israelis live in their own, prosperous country.
The point is, "there are bad people who would like to harm me and sometimes they do," even if it is true, is not a good reason for the large scale masacre of civilians, blowing up hospitals, assassinations and all the other stuff Israel is doing.
the fact is that within a day the xnerd method has failed. the lying is no beyond belief given the effort required to distinguish it. and the fact that repeatedly posting word for word rebuttals does not abate it in any way means that it has been weaponized to such a degree to be unstoppable.
truly, they are aware of the absurdity of their replies. but words dont matter to them. its all a game.
It's not a perfect analogy. But certainly, many open racists and sympathizers were elected to office, like George Wallace.
If you voted for George Wallace, would it be morally reasonable to execute your entire family and blow up the nearest hospital?
To state the obvious, this is an analogy that bends over backwards to be fair to Isreal. For example, blacks had to actually live under the rule of people like George Wallace as second class c
ya but holocaust
Victor, I'm going to level with you in a personal way. My father became a flat earther in his old age. I can spin myself in circles about it (and I did for a while), or just accept that some people believe things to be true no matter what evidence you show them to the contrary. There aren't going to be winners and losers in these debates. Just speak to the audience, and when something is said that you don't believe is true, debunk it the best you can and move on from it. I cannot be the arbiter of absolute truth in the thread. It just isn't workable.
Try your best for me and I'll try my best for you guys. Thats the promise I'm making here. ♥
@VIc: Not only that but Islamophobia too.
the fact is that within a day the xnerd method has failed. the lying is no beyond belief given the effort required to distinguish it. and the fact that repeatedly posting word for word rebuttals does not abate it in any way means that it has been weaponized to such a degree to be unstoppable.
truly, they are aware of the absurdity of their replies. but words dont matter to them. its all a game.
Victor today we got
1) Every baby in an incubator in Gaza died - big nope based on the evidence
2) Your last baby story - seems probabilistically impossible based on the thorough debunking, and at minimum is rife with genuine dishonesty and morphing of facts from three different stories
3) The UN just adjusted their women and children death totals down by 42% for the conflict so far - absolutely, their own data was posted for the thread to see
I don't know why you think a great injustice has happened in here. We're talking, we're treating each other better, and nobody has weirdly freaked out on anyone or gotten ugly. It's been WAY better, Crossnerds nailed this.
We definitely needed a woman to keep all us apes in line
Victor, I'm going to level with you in a personal way. My father became a flat earther in his old age. I can spin myself in circles about it (and I did for a while), or just accept that some people believe things to be true no matter what evidence you show them to the contrary. There aren't going to be winners and losers in these debates. Just speak to the audience, and when something is said that you don't believe is true, debunk it the be
ya but my ego
Victor today we got
1) Every baby in an incubator in Gaza died - big nope
2) Your last baby story - seems probabilistically impossible based on the thorough debunking, and at minimum is rife with genuine dishonesty and morphing of facts from three different stories
3) The UN just adjusted their women and children death totals down by 42% for the conflict so far - absolutely
I don't know why you think a great injustice has happened in here. We'r
well no, we didnt get any of those things. you are latching on to PW and washoe being less than careful with their words. but Israel murdered a bunch of babies in incubators. thats well documentated and will go down as historical fact.
and the UN just could not identify the bodies of 10k people. they are still dead. many are still women and children. and almost all are still civilians.
this comes from your source itself even in the limited fashion that you presented it and from the actual press conference and release as reported by Reuters.
the forum rules are better for you bc now you have carte blance to go all bad faith and outright lying for reasons I wont even begin to explain bc then I would get banned and probably deservedly so. suffice it to say that me and you are not similar in terms of morality and outlook. bc I dont doubt for a second that you know the absurdity of what you say, as Sartre explained.
well no, we didnt get any of those things. you are latching on to PW and washoe being less than careful with their words. but Israel murdered a bunch of babies in incubators. thats well documentated and will go down as historical fact.
and the UN just could not identify the bodies of 10k people. they are still dead. many are still women and children. and almost all are still civilians.
this comes from your source itself even in the limi
Victor the details matter.
All the babies in Gaza in incubators died, vs 6 babies in incubators, is a big difference.
15k women and children out of 30-40k, vs 50k women and children out of 100k, is a big difference.
30-40k dead vs 300k dead, is a big difference.
At the end of the day, these differences define things like "genocide" for example, vs a war where tragedy does happen. So don't be surprised if you see me key in on things like claiming every baby died. Or claiming 6 figure deaths. Because these sorts of lies get put on Jews constantly historically (going on thousands of years). And then Jews like me just say "nope".
I look forward to our next talk.
Victor the details matter.
All the babies in Gaza in incubators died, vs 6 babies in incubators, is a big difference.
15k women and children out of 30-40k, vs 50k women and children out of 100k, is a big difference.
30-40k dead vs 300k dead, is a big difference.
At the end of the day, these differences define things like "genocide" for example, vs a war where tragedy does happen. So don't be surprised if you see me key in on things like clai
but none of the numbers you have just confidently asserted as facts are even close to confirmed. so thats where the Sartre quote comes in.
anyway, on to the next atrocity. not really an atrocity compared to the 100s of murdered Palestinians by day, but this is white people so maybe it will gain some attention.
hol up!, just got word that this particular doctor, Adam Hamaway is indeed an antisemite! nothing to see here folks, he deserves it. so does his family.
if he wasnt an antisemite, then he wouldnt be doing doctor things in Gaza right now
but none of the numbers you have just confidently asserted as facts are even close to confirmed. so thats where the Sartre quote comes in.
As none of yours have been throughout
We can only go by what we hand
Rafiki is quoting the updated UN numbers, the organization that condemns Israel in disproportionate ways
