Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
Posting guidelines for Politics and Soci...
These are our baselines. We're not reinventing the wheel here. If you aren't sure if something is acceptable to post, its better to ask first. If you think someone is posting something that violates the above guidelines, please report it or PM me rather than responding in kind.
To reiterate some of the points:
1. No personal attacks. This is a broad instruction, but, in general, we want to focus on attacking an argument rather than the poster making it. It is fine to say a post is antisemitic; it is not okay to call someone an antisemite over and over. If you believe someone is making antisemitic posts, report them or PM me. The same goes for calling people "baby killers" and "genocide lovers". You are allowed to argue that an action supports genocide or that the consequences of certain policies results in the death of children, but we are no longer going to be speaking to one another's intentions. It is not productive to the conversation and doesn't further any debate.
2. Racist posts and other bigoted statements that target a particular group or individuals of such groups with derogatory comments are not allowed. This should not need further explanation.
3. Graphic Images need to be in spoilers with a trigger warning.
4. Wishing Harm on other posters will result in an immediate timeout.
5. Genocidal statements such as "Kill 'em all" etc, are no longer permissible in the thread.
If anyone has any questions about the above, please PM me. I don't want a discussion about the rules to derail the content of this thread. If anything needs clarifying, I will do that in this thread.
Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
Btw just so we don't get into a quality of source battle, this is something that has been a forever thing.
UNWRA has had the balls before to actually call it out:
https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-rel...
UNRWA CONDEMNS PLACEMENT OF ROCKETS, FOR A SECOND TIME, IN ONE OF ITS SCHOOLS
The blowback comes from other groups that want to get combat time and support the Palestinians sides cause.
People will come to the aid of Palestine. Especially if they feel it is their religious duty. And especially if the only way they die is if allah wills it
The blowback comes from other groups that want to get combat time and support the opposite sides cause.
People will come to the aid of Palestine. Especially if they feel it is their religious duty. And especially if the only way they die is if allah wills it
It has been a surprise to many that this largely hasn't happened to the extent it could have.
Rafiki and Victor, you are on the path toward timeouts. Please chill and stop talking about each other.
We are also going to dial back the Nazi comparisons please. Seriously, just dial it back a bit. Thanks guys
I believe this is exactly the sort of posts we're trying to stop in this thread Victor. The whole Jew = a Nazi thing isn't going to get us anywhere.
It’s the Zionism is justification for genocide argument for me
Vic doesn’t like genociders. What’s wrong with that?
The pre European American people were almost wiped out by European genociders. I don’t think there’s an issue with Vic not liking them either
Btw when these things get investigated by a third party, typically this is how it goes. But someone has to look:
https://unwatch.org/un-admits-palestinia...
UN admits Palestinians fired rockets from UNRWA schools
The UN finally investigated the Palestinian storing of rockets in UNRWA schools and their use of the schools to launch rockets against Israel, all of which constitute grave violations of the Geneva Conventions and international humanitarian law.
Rafiki and Victor, you are on the path toward timeouts. Please chill and stop talking about each other.
We are also going to dial back the Nazi comparisons please. Seriously, just dial it back a bit. Thanks guys
Which was the post for me that crossed so I don't do that again? I've gone to great lengths to be very civil and obey the new rules.
I'll point out that my restraint has been admirable in the face of what's been coming the other way no less.
It’s the Zionism is justification for genocide argument for me
Vic doesn’t like genociders. What’s wrong with that?
The pre European American people were almost wiped out by European genociders. I don’t think there’s an issue with Vic not liking them either
I believe this is also the sort of stuff we are no longer supposed to do. You seem to be allowed to presently. But I'm not entirely sure why.
I could perhaps help you learn how to use Google over a video meeting? There's some time in my schedule.
I feel it could lead to smoother conversation then.
@Rafiki
This one. Don’t start issues like this please. It devolves into sarcastic back and forths with no content.
You’re doing great otherwise, friend, and I appreciate you 😀
I mean what's the point? The IDF released drone footage, and also battled Hamas fighters in an UNWRA building.
Reuters and company have run the stories (the school, the marked UN vehicles, etc).
Anything I post you'll say "can't trust the IDF"
So frankly I have no interest in doing this loop with you that we always do. I'll let the others discuss it.
also this one surely
It’s racist to call one thing a genocide (holocaust) and not another thing a genocide (nakba/gaza)
We aren’t allowed to be racist. Gotta follow the rules you know
@Rafiki
This one. Don’t start issues like this please. It devolves into sarcastic back and forths with no content.
You’re doing great otherwise, friend, and I appreciate you 😀
To be clear though, that was a sincere offer. If I can't post links because they're all fake, and he can't find them otherwise, we need to find another way.
I really didn't mind doing a video meeting with him to arrive at a compromise.
Ok, I believe you. Let’s get back to posts about the conflict. Thanks, friends!
haha THIS might be the conflict, the way things are going.
Palm Beach for us; mortuaries for you (if you're lucky).
Rafiki and Victor, you are on the path toward timeouts. Please chill and stop talking about each other.
We are also going to dial back the Nazi comparisons please. Seriously, just dial it back a bit. Thanks guys
Thanks and I was actually considering pmng you regarding this specific issue.
Some Jewish organisations such as The WJC & ADL regard such comparisons as anti Semitic and diminishing/trivialising the Holocaust.
https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/n...
You made a valid point earlier on refraining from calling people anti Semites but being welcome to label a post as such ,with argument to back up the labeling.
If Nazi comparisons are regarded by sections of the Jewish community as an anti Semitic trope, then aren't posts which make such comparisons anti Semitic by default? Even if it's not the intention? Israel didn't have a Wansee conference or a death camp like Sobibor or Auschwitz or Treblinka. Israeli doctors never conducted Mengele like experiments on Palestinians, or made Palestinians were yellow crescents.
Such comparisons certainly trivialise the Holocaust.
Victor has to know that such a comparison is offensive to many people and particularly some of the Jewish posters itt. Even if anti Semitism isn't his intention he has to be aware it shows a callous indifference to the feelings of some of the Jewish posters itt. At best it's a rage bait bad faith argument and no good is going to come of it.
We can all agree that this is a very emotive hot button topic. So far I've been quite impressed with your modding of such a topic and you come across as fair and thoughtful.
So I would respectfully ask that you consider forbidding Nazi comparisons the way calling others anti Semites at the drop of a hat by rote is also a bad faith argument ultimately, from which nothing good will come of.
I'll respect your decision either way, but again ask that you consider it.
Cheers.
lol of course one side would argue that nothing they can do could be compared to the holocaust. Rules for thee but not for me
lets not compare the current
-mass murder of people
-mass decapitation of people
-mass burying alive of people
-mass burning alive of people
-mass blowing up of people
-mass starvation of people
-mass amputation of people
-mass torture of people where they are forced to sit blindfolded and in diapers for months on end
-destruction of all infrastucture including electricity, water, housing
to the holocaust he says.
then proceeds to do just that
Israel didn't have a Wansee conference or a death camp like Sobibor or Auschwitz or Treblinka. Israeli doctors never conducted Mengele like experiments on Palestinians, or made Palestinians were yellow crescents.
Such comparisons certainly trivialise the Holocaust.
rules for thee but not for me.
you know what I find offensive? the trivialization and justification and outright lying about the most atrocious mass murder event of my lifetime.
Can I compare Israel to other highly developed and industrialized nations committing mass murder on a captive population? well, when I find a more apt comparison I will use it.
