Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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I fear for the safety of the apostrophe.
really wish someone told me sooner than i was being a useful idiot by saying it was bad to drop bombs on sleeping refugees in tents located in areas they were ordered them to. and goddamn hamas are talented to mastermind all of this somehow, they must have superpowers
really wish someone told me sooner than i was being a useful idiot by saying it was bad to drop bombs on sleeping refugees in tents located in areas they were ordered them to. and goddamn hamas are talented to mastermind all of this somehow, they must have superpowers
Better late than never I guess
Israel's reputation can definitely get worse.
Their allies also are not solely worried about appearances, they are attempting to help Israel avoid the long term consequences of their very short sighted actions. Israel should listen.
Sure it can get worse but they're already knee deep in it. If they can stop bombing tent cities and aid convoys they can manage it.
I mean we all love AI for helping us out but Israel, maybe slow down and approve bombing locations the old fashioned way for this offensive.
I'm saying their public appearance shouldn't be a consideration at this moment, can't get much worse. Might as well finished what you started in that regards.
Oh I agree they should stop what their doing because of what it is.
but they are still hemorrhaging support internationally. That can also get far worse.
Really good watch:
Israel is looking at the long term with it's actions now. The little military incursions they used to employ were short sided. The safety of it's people is more important than it's reputation.
They are doing the exact opposite of this. What deterrence Israel could do has been done. Gaza supported a group that committed a horrible terrorist act and now millions get to live on top of rubble. It's going to be very difficult to convince Gazan citizens to live through this again, but there is one viable way to convince them that another terrorist act is worth it: murder their family.
Not sure if that's sarcasm, but the natural effect will more Hamas, not less.
They are doing the exact opposite of this. What deterrence Israel could do has been done. Gaza supported a group that committed a horrible terrorist act and now millions get to live on top of rubble. It's going to be very difficult to convince Gazan citizens to live through this again, but there is one viable way to convince them that another terrorist act is worth it: murder their family.
Gazans would support another Oct7 regardless of Israel’s response. You can’t further radicalize a population that is already fully radicalized. Decades of performative responses failed and ultimately led to Oct 7 anyways. If you just started following on Oct 7 then you might not realize this.
It's as if firing shells at Gazans on beaches never happened, another "tragic mistake" from the IDF.
The IDF is tightening the food blockade. Genocidal.
That is funny. I dont remember you making any such comments about Egypt's blockade. Maybe I just missed it.
I will say BH is an avatar of why nothing ever gets better. If all the incentives line up for Palestinian bad behavior, and they are never called out for any of it and are instead rewarded for it, and all criticism solely goes the other way; there is absolutely no path forward.
With the current incentive structure, Palestinian society is never going to moderate, regardless of what Israel does*. It really is getting to the point where they need to be removed for their own safety. The current US strategy of letting the Palestinians do their thing while using the carrot and stick approach to restrain Israel has its limits, that we are seeing.
*I know the current narrative is that if Israel acts in good faith and just turns the other cheek at Palestinian belligerence and violence, the Palestinians will come around on their own. And it sounds nice in theory. But there is just no history to indicate this will actually happen.
This is the problem. If people would just direct their anger toward the real bad guy's, Hamas, this war would be over. Hamas loves that it's useful idiots are spreading their propaganda like it's the gospel. Every time someone condemns Israel, Hamas wins. Why is it so hard to differentiate between good and evil?
The idea that Israel is doing worse things is false. They have made mistakes but it's silly to say they are doing worse things. Th
Plenty of people know Hamas is awful and are bad guys. It’s def important for Israel to not be like them. If Israel is bombing “safe areas”, that’s a problem.
Regarding Israel’s perception in the world—I agree, a lot of people hate Israel and will regardless of what happens. Then there are a lot of people like BPG, who imo has been very fair with his takes during this war but is currently critical of Israel, and rightfully so.
Hamas members are among the civilians, and I’m not sure what the correct solution is. I hate the idea of a ground attack that will cost Israelis their lives, but this also isn’t the answer.
Hamas doing that is a war crime, but Israel needs to be better than Hamas.
See the post above the one you quoted.
So it is reported the live fire between Israeli troops and Egyptian ones happened in a Hamas smuggling tunnel under Rafah. To anyone honest paying half attention it was always obvious that Egypt and Hamas were working in concert to control smuggling tunnels into an out of Gaza; which explains how Hamas was able to get all the materials to build the current war machine.
And of course the international community has nothing to say about any of this, except that Israel should leave Gaza, hand back the smuggling tunnels, so Hamas can rebuild the war machine for the next war they decide to start.
Why should it condemn another country if it enables Gaza to defend itself when Israel gets so much from the West? Isn't that what happens in wars, which we are repeatedly told this is?
