Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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Getting him to edit it was a step. I'll take it.
I won't
As calls go though that's not really much of one. Biden has been angling for a foreign policy win from the word go. He's trying to make up for Afghanistan, and some might argue Ukraine (not I).
He's so unlikely to get it, but we'll see.
Tbh i think that as far as November elections are concerned, Afghanistan has totally disappeared as a topic.
Biden was just unlucky 10 7 was in 2023 and not in 2021
Washoe, please take a break from this thread until 12:00 AM Eastern Time for breaking the personal attacks rule as well as modifying another poster's username in a derogatory manner. Thank you.
I don't think the us is really trying to appease "arab concerns" that's too general
Of course not. Americans are blind to the rest of the world. The President is trying to appease pro-Israeli American voters and keffiyeh-wearing American voters at the same time, what with a presidential election upcoming and all.
If anything, Biden is trying to appease anti-Israeli voters, particularly the uninformed young ones.
But his foreign policy instincts are just abysmal and he’s only managed to piss everyone off.
They're using, they are makin decisions above their intelligence otherwise.
What strike timing? You do realize that the Palestinians are the ones that invaded Israel with 6,000 men, killed around 1k Israeli's, and took 250 hostages (a lot of them already dead), right?
If you want to believe the Israeli govt has ulterior motives in the ongoing Gaza invasion that is fine; but as with your Russia speculation you do this weird thing where you dont seem to acknowledge who actually invaded who. And how there would be
I acknowledge that happened, I just think its all more complex than the simple observable media narratives. Nobody believe russia unilaterality invaded. The pressures and escalations leading up Russia invading are discussed all over. The sentiments are simply not allowed in the mainstream nor hardly in the ukraine/russia thread here. Its a widely held view.
That one will be taught in military schools for generations. No idea what they were doing. Just too much pressure and rage and they weren't thinking clearly. Supply lines, you cut them.
Maybe their models showed too great a risk, but I dunno. The juice was worth the squeeze in my very simplified view of the campaign. And then civilians are slowly pushed north instead. I guess part of the issue is most of the Hamas battalions were in the nor
North Gaza borders Israel population centers, and is where they launch most of their rockets from. I think it was fine strategically to destroy North Gaza to neutralize the threat against Israel, create a buffer zone, and get some retribution.
I suspect the farther away from Israel rockets are fired from, the odds of them falling short and landing in Gaza increase exponentially. I suspect an extremely under-reported aspect of this war (because it is inconvenient to the narrative) is how much civilian death and destruction is caused by Hamas "friendly fire," from rockets, munitions and small arms.
Although I think the Palestinians themselves understand this, which is why as the war drags on they are having much higher compliance evacuating to Israeli controlled safe zones to get away from Hamas fighters, who are probably much more likely to kill Palestinian civilians than Israeli soldiers.
Do you agree they are losing the favor of the world? My peers are VERY confused. How would an Israeli citizen feel if they found out that the IDF doesn't pick their own targets?
They shouldn't be very confised. Events are in netanyahu's interest and it's very easy to exploit genuine anger/fear by banging war drums and sounding rightous.
What would be confusing if this ends while that means the end of netneyahu. Him beign secure or already gone is pretty much a prerequisute for an end of fighting - whether that's with hamas, hezbollah, iran ..
They shouldn't be very confised. Events are in netanyahu's interest and it's very easy to exploit genuine anger/fear by banging war drums and sounding rightous.
What would be confusing if this ends while that means the end of netneyahu. Him beign secure or already gone is pretty much a prerequisute for an end of fighting - whether that's with hamas, hezbollah, iran ..
I mean like from a western canada perspective, the general population doesn't wade through any details, and we can't share our news on social media. So we don't see news really anymore and we don't discuss it.
So you hear like 30,000 gazans killed and people don't have any understanding why.
They didn't watch biden say he SAW THE DEAD BABIES. They just think biden is senile, they dont' watch him.
People aren't watching long videos on the off chance they'll catch a glimpse of what you're talking about.
Start the video at the relevant spot and I'll watch it, but street protests are part of our heritage and no one cares about it. Most of the violence on them is usually by the police anyway..
@mongidig still hoping you'll direct us to the part of the video that shows what you're claiming?
Ok but in the 5 or 7 or so threads, most of which are controlled by the pandas, can't you see the quandary building? Israel is going to run out of allied support at the exact same time that Ukraine does. This is obvious. At the same time Americans decide they want their constitutional based values and freedoms back.
Yup, its existential that's for sure. How can none of you see this play?
Israel is besieged.
I dont know exactly where you are going with this, but I think there is a lot of people that aren't giving sufficient consideration to what a desperate Israel, with tremendous conventional and nuclear military power, means for world security.
I think we actually ran very good that all of the USSR's nukes and high powered conventional military hardware ended up in a Russia, which has retained control over the arsenal and remained a functional, rational nation state (even if you disagree with Putin's current imperial objectives). And I dont think we want to gamble too much with more high powered nuclear nation states destabilizing.
All the "defund the Iron Dome" crowd, including many of our own politicians, I think aren't really thinking things through very well. And I say the same thing for all the Muslims throughout the world that think supporting this current iteration of the Palestinian cause is good for the Ummah, because I dont think it is at all. It really is a poorly thought out position IMO.
Just like we had to make peace with all of the conquests and genocides of the Turkish people, that transformed the area of Turkey form an (ethnic) Greek Orthodox stronghold to an ethnic Turkish Islamic nation state; I think it is best for the entire world to make peace with Israel remaining the world's lone Jewish state. And the Ummah needs to get over it and move on.
Well when Iran fired rockets at the dome recently, all angles of media seemed to report the middle east is lit up with allied forces which took out most of the attack as I understand.
Here I'm thinking of the attack on bagdahad. Often referred to as desert storm but really storm was the name of 1 force of 42 allies I think:
Operational names
Most of the coalition states used various names for their operations and the war's operational phases. These are sometimes incorrectly used as the conflict's overall name, especially the US Desert Storm:
Operation Desert Shield was the US operational name for the US buildup of forces and Saudi Arabia's defense from 2 August 1990, to 16 January 1991[citation needed]
Operation Desert Storm was the US name of the airland conflict from 17 January 1991, through 28 February 1991[citation needed]
Operation Desert Sabre (early name Operation Desert Sword) was the US name for the airland offensive against the Iraqi Army in the Kuwaiti Theater of Operations (the "100-hour war") from 24 to 28 February 1991, in itself, part of Operation Desert Storm[citation needed]
Operation Desert Farewell was the name given to the return of US units and equipment to the US in 1991 after Kuwait's liberation, sometimes referred to as Operation Desert Calm[citation needed]
Operativo Alfil was the Argentine name for Argentine military activities[citation needed]
Opération Daguet was the French name for French military activities in the conflict[citation needed]
Operation Friction was the name of the Canadian operations[34]
Operation Granby was the British name for British military activities during the operations and conflict[35]
Operazione Locusta (Italian for Locust) was the Italian name for the operations and conflict[citation neede
Desert sheild was a year long build up of these allies.
It seems that from the north to south in this world, the west has been building up again. I think I heard france or something reference operation shader.
Well thats full reliance imo on the entire coalition to back israel.
If that coalition turned on israel, I don't think israel could respond.
Well when Iran fired rockets at the dome recently, all angles of media seemed to report the middle east is lit up with allied forces which took out most of the attack as I understand.
Here I'm thinking of the attack on bagdahad. Often referred to as desert storm but really storm was the name of 1 force of 42 allies I think:
Desert sheild was a year long build up of these allies.
It seems that from the north to south in this world, the west
Even assuming there is some motivation to do this that I dont see at all; seems like a VERY big risk for not much reward. Doesn't seem very rational at all.
Even assuming there is some motivation to do this that I dont see at all; seems like a VERY big risk for not much reward. Doesn't seem very rational at all.
The reward to take USD reserve control and miltary power away from israel, which includes us and nato. You call that not a big reward?
The reward to take USD reserve control and miltary power away from israel, which includes us and nato. You call that not a big reward?
No. I dont think Israel/Jews are shadow controlling America; and if I did believe that, honestly looking at how things have gone since WWII, I would say the Jews have been doing a fine good job, and we should leave them in control.
I think Pax Americana has been great for the world in every measurable and moral way; and the new multipolar reality is going to suck hard in comparison.
No. I dont think Israel/Jews are shadow controlling America; and if I did believe that, honestly looking at how things have gone since WWII, I would say the Jews have been doing a fine good job, and we should leave them in control.
I think Pax Americana has been great for the world in every measurable and moral way; and the new multipolar reality is going to suck hard in comparison.
Perhaps, but going back to WWII depending on how you see the divisions of the world, I don't think the 'pan-das' agree with your sentiments.
I can't help but think about how the allied forces worked with separate operations in the buildup to desert storm etc. How in communication where they and at what level? Most of the people involved probably had no idea what they were building to and perhaps no idea that other allies were involved-this took place over months and years.
We can see the importance of backdooring technology even in the 90's:
American-made color photocopiers were used to produce some of Iraq's battle plans. Some of the copiers contained concealed high-tech transmitters that revealed their positions to American electronic warfare aircraft, leading to more precise bombings.
Whether or not you believe Israel controls the us military is mute at this point. If it turns out the allied forces pull an order 66 israel loses power immediately.
This happens automatically if the US doesn't renew and extend their debt and this is all juxtaposed with paying for the attritional war in europe which everyone knows that putin has the attritional advantage in.
So Biden is announcing that Israel has approved a peace deal that is basically just acquiescing to the demands Hamas has been making since Day 1.
Israel will just leave, the west and Gulf states will pay to rebuild Gaza, Hamas will stay in power, and hopefully some hostages will be released sometime down the line.
In hindsight whether it happens today, tomorrow or 6 months from now; given the support for Hamas in the Muslim world, Europe and American progressives, this is always how it was going to end. It is just a matter of Israel destroying as much of the terror infrastructure until they are satisfied they can leave and their Southern border is secure for the foreseeable future.
So Biden is announcing that Israel has approved a peace deal that is basically just acquiescing to the demands Hamas has been making since Day 1.
Israel will just leave, the west and Gulf states will pay to rebuild Gaza, Hamas will stay in power, and hopefully some hostages will be released sometime down the line.
In hindsight whether it happens today, tomorrow or 6 months from now; given the support for Hamas in the Muslim world, Europe
The Mafia are horrible.
Yep.
Sadly, many Italian civilians have friends and family linked to the mob. And even more people are foolish enough to think they are cool. Or protect them out of fear or ethnic loyalty
True.
This makes them hard to get rid of.
Yep.
Well, i guess the only solution is to keep indiscriminately killing Italians until every trace of the mafia is gone.
What? No!
Checkmate. I've proven you love the mafia.
The Mafia are horrible.
Yep.
Sadly, many Italian civilians have friends and family linked to the mob. And even more people are foolish enough to think they are cool. Or protect them out of fear or ethnic loyalty
True.
This makes them hard to get rid of.
Yep.
Well, i guess the only solution is to keep indiscriminately killing Italians until every trace of the mafia is gone.
What? No!
Checkmate. I've proven you love the mafia.
Well, rest assured when Israel eventually decides they have destroyed enough of Gaza and leave (which current news seems to indicate may be sooner than later) the people of Gaza have a bright, great future ahead of them.
Just kidding. They are completely ****ed. Hamas was brutal when they were the big dog unchallenged. In their current weakened, vulnerable state they will have to be absolutely savage and ruthless to retain and re-establish control. This is pretty much a worst case scenario for the Gaza people.
I am really skeptical of what Biden is saying, if he did actually say that.
