Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
The religious right who are keeping Netanyahu in power don't want Israel to leave Gaza. They want Israel to re-settle it and ethnically cleanse the Palestinians. This would, of course, be problematic -- not least for Israel -- like the whole of Israel's imperial policy since 1967.
I understand that. But regardless, Israel is going to eventually leave due to some combination of internal pressure, external pressure, and need to reallocate resources to more immediate existential threats.
And Hamas will still be there, as some version of a theocratic mafia, to make sure the situation remains hopeless for the Palestinians. That being said, due to their own bigotry, xenophobia and history this is what most of the Palestinians would prefer anyways.
Kind of looks like a diaspora, doesn't it? In circumstances of oppression, expropriation, ethnic cleansing and persecution that we all know about. Maybe there should be a Blinken Declaration, viewing with US imperial favour the establishment of a national homeland for the Palestinians in, erm, Palestine.
Yes, I know.
Except it is a doomed project because of choices Palestinians have made and continue to make (due in large part to propaganda/radicatlization efforts from their own politicians and outside interests). The world has been hyper focused on Israel for 80 years, and giving Palestinians a free pass for horrible decision making; and this is where it has gotten us. Nowhere.
At some point if you want to fix a problem, you have to address the main cause of the problem.
Israel Day on 5th with a great turnout.
Nice to see.
Kind of looks like a diaspora, doesn't it? In circumstances of oppression, expropriation, ethnic cleansing and persecution that we all know about. Maybe there should be a Blinken Declaration, viewing with US imperial favour the establishment of a national homeland for the Palestinians in, erm, Palestine.
Yes, I know.
Not a diaspora , just high fertility.
There were very few ancestors of current Palestinians in Palestine back in the day Israel arrived.
Approx half of current Gaza residents weren't even there when Hamas took power in 2006 lol
Kind of looks like a diaspora, doesn't it? In circumstances of oppression, expropriation, ethnic cleansing and persecution that we all know about. Maybe there should be a Blinken Declaration, viewing with US imperial favour the establishment of a national homeland for the Palestinians in, erm, Palestine.
Yes, I know.
That's quite the reach.
The numbers he quoted are from immigration well over 60 years. That's not 5 years worth or anything.
LIke all manner of country in the middle east, people do have the opportunity to immigrate to other places via a process, and many do. If we look at the huge volume of Muslims who moved from the Middle East to Europe for example, that's not a diaspora. That's moving to opportunity in the West. Muslims can do that too btw, it's weirdly racist to think they wouldn't.
Collectively there are more Palestinian refugees outside of "Palestine" than inside now, if my math is correct. And yes they still call them refugees no matter where in the world they live now or what they do. They're the only people I know of that do this. There are millionaire CEO refugees, for example.
That's quite the reach.
The numbers he quoted are from immigration well over 60 years. That's not 5 years worth or anything.
LIke all manner of country in the middle east, people do have the opportunity to immigrate to other places via a process, and many do. If we look at the huge volume of Muslims who moved from the Middle East to Europe for example, that's not a diaspora. That's moving to opportunity in the West. Muslims can do that too
Not only 80y of emigration, a lot of those are people born outside Palestine from emigrated parents.
And uniquely (afaik) worldwide they are considered refugees even if their parents moved away 36 years ago and they were born elsewhere 29y ago and have never been to Palestine
Not only 80y of emigration, a lot of those are people born outside Palestine from emigrated parents.
And uniquely (afaik) worldwide they are considered refugees even if their parents moved away 36 years ago and they were born elsewhere 29y ago and have never been to Palestine
Yes
Unrwa was created specifically for them. Different rules your Palestinians than any other refugee group in history
Washoe the current president of the italian republic had his brother assassinated by the mafia. Your comment was very offensive because it is very false among other things, and because today is the italian national day in which we celebrate our republic and our head of state brother was the sicilian leader of the democrazia cristiana, the party that ruled italy for 40+ years, and was killed by the mafia in 1980.
I reported your post for anti
I wouldn't call it false. Italy's mafias are indeed ingrained in all aspects of the state. Police reports from the 1930s assert how the 'Ndrangheta have infiltrated all state and societal institutions. US officials have stated if Calabria weren't part of Italy it would be considered a failed state.
https://www.independent.com.mt/articles/...
Italy's judiciary is hopelessly corrupt where a verdict can be bought, or stretched out until prescrizione kicks in, thanks to mafia judges such as Corrado Carnevale, among others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrado_Ca...
Carnevale was nicknamed l'ammazzasentenze (the sentence-slayer) because of the many convictions of Mafiosi he overturned on appeal.[1] During the Maxi Trial in the mid 1980s, Carnevale was the president of the first criminal section of the Court of Cassation, however because he was suspected of colluding with the Mafia, he was not appointed as prosecutor and the final decision on the Maxi Trial, as he was replaced with judge Arnaldo Valente.[2]
Carnevale was suspended from his magisterial duties in March 1993. On 29 June 2001, he was sentenced to six years' imprisonment for external competition in mafia association,[3] but was acquitted by the Supreme Court of Cassation on 30 October 2002
If it needs to be paid for we'll pay. We have plenty of friends at the palace of justice
^^Salvatore "Toto" Riina aka "la belva"/The Beast, undisputed boss of La Cosa Nostra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvatore_...
There have been mafia Priests
https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-com...
The boss of bosses for many years, Salvatore (Totò) Riina, was married in a Palermo church while living as a fugitive. The priest who officiated, Agostino Coppola, was himself from a Mafia family: his cousin was an Italian-American gangster named Frank (Three Fingers) Coppola. Father Coppola was defrocked when he was discovered with a considerable amount of cash from a kidnapping ransom; he later married the daughter of a Mafia family.
Mafia shrinks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldo_Semer...
In exchange for financial support for his organisation, Semerari helped the members of various criminal organisations evade imprisonment when they were arrested, devising strategies for coping with police interrogation and writing reports that sought to establish either innocence or lack of culpability, which were usually supported by a fraudulent diagnosis of mental infirmity.[18] In addition to the Banda della Magliana, Semerari made similar deals with both Raffaele Cutolo's New Organised Camorra (Nuova Camorra Organizzata; NCO) and one of Cutulo's main rivals, the New Family (Nuova Famiglia; NF) headed by Carmine Alfieri.[19] Franco Ferraresi later concluded that Semerari's efforts in keeping criminals away from severe punishment bore fruit, as his diagnoses were "critical in obtaining lenient terms for many of them
Mafia surgeons
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_G...
And mafia architects
https://abcnews.go.com/International/sus...
So yeah the mafias are totally absolutely no room for doubtingly ingrained in Italian society.
You may find it offensive but Italy is essentially a mafia state and several scholarly academic books on the matter are actually quite candid about this.
And my common law wife and in laws are Italian so I can assure you I'm not engaging in anti Italian racism, but this is a rare case of washoe's comments being about as opposite of very false as you can get.
So I would ask the mods to take on board the info provided in this post before deciding re washoe, cheers.
Times Of Israel article about how Israel-supporting organisations in the US fund Tommy Robinson's hate-driven and often criminally Islamophobic activities in the UK.
Times Of Israel article about how Israel-supporting organisations in the US fund Tommy Robinson's hate-driven and often criminally Islamophobic activities in the UK.
That's nothing new world wide. Apartheid South Africa trained Zulu Inkatha Freedom Party operatives to form militias. Gadaffi armed the IRA and forged links with the El Rukn street gang in LA. US armed the Contras etc. Murky affairs make for murky measures.
I don't understand the why in the excerpt you provided, what's hard or unclear or complicated, or unusual in the idea that people who hate Muslims and consider them a threat to the west will almost automatically consider Israel an ally?
Enemy of my enemies and so on
Edit: oh wait lol, not even obvious that the guy hates Muslim in general, just the typical framing of radical leftists calling "far alt right" very normal positions
I don't understand the why in the excerpt you provided, what's hard or unclear or complicated, or unusual in the idea that people who hate Muslims and consider them a threat to the west will almost automatically consider Israel an ally?
Enemy of my enemies and so on
Edit: oh wait lol, not even obvious that the guy hates Muslim in general, just the typical framing of radical leftists calling "far alt right" very normal positions
lol indeed..
VERY NORMAL POSITIONS, VERY HEALTHY ACTIVITIES
Robinson has been active in far-right politics for many years. He was a member of the British National Party (BNP), a neo-fascist and white nationalist political party, from 2004 to 2005. For a short time in 2012, he was joint vice-chairman of the far-right British Freedom Party (BFP). He co-founded the far-right English Defence League (EDL) in 2009 and led it until 8 October 2013. In 2015, he became involved with the development of Pegida UK, a now-defunct British chapter of the German far-right Pegida. From 2017 to 2018, he wrote and appeared in videos on the Canadian far-right website Rebel News.
Robinson has been convicted for multiple crimes involving violence, stalking, financial and immigration fraud, drug possession, public order offences, and contempt of court. He has served at least four separate prison terms
Very normal positions about islamist stuff.
I mean it's good he went to jail for violating rules about filming trials, but what I read after I Google his name about his take on islamism is really normal.
I mean if we can't even be against sharia in 2024 we have a problem man.
I think being in favour of a complete separation of church and state is.. normal yes. As it is to consider any attempt to legislate religious morality as a direct threat to the west
I wouldn't call it false. Italy's mafias are indeed ingrained in all aspects of the state. Police reports from the 1930s assert how the 'Ndrangheta have infiltrated all state and societal institutions. US officials have stated if Calabria weren't part of Italy it would be considered a failed state.
https://www.independent.com.mt/articles/...
Italy's judiciary is hopelessly corr
Thank you. My original point was just that you can oppose unlimited violence as a solution to a problem, without being in favor of the problem.
Maybe a better example is that you can oppose Israeli settlements but not favor slaughtering civilians at Israeli raves.
But your case shows how deeply ingrained these things can be and it's not as simple as "Italians should just stop having the mafia."
As for elections and stuff, neither Hamas nor Israel has done anything as bad as the Iraq war. It had popular support in many of our countries.
We did not punish those responsible, or even stop voting for many of them. Our media celebrate them and they are showered with money and status. Few of them seem to have lost a minute's sleep over murdering 500k or so.
Tldr: bad stuff hapens. Bad people get power. Populations support bad things.
The left blocked the left!
But seriously it shouldn't be that shocking in theory. Hamas is against gay pride
Standard behavior from the left.
Here’s more:
https://nypost.com/2024/06/02/us-news/an...
Kill hostages now sign, of course held by a pathetic coward with his face covered.
I don't understand the why in the excerpt you provided, what's hard or unclear or complicated, or unusual in the idea that people who hate Muslims and consider them a threat to the west will almost automatically consider Israel an ally?
It's not at all clear to me why people who hate Muslims would automatically consider Israel an ally, can you spell it out for me?
Standard behavior from the left.
Here’s more:
https://nypost.com/2024/06/02/us-news/an...
Kill hostages now sign, of course held by a pathetic coward with his face covered.
How pathetic
If you hate Jews own it. Why wear a mask?
Standard behavior from the left.
Here’s more:
https://nypost.com/2024/06/02/us-news/an...
Kill hostages now sign, of course held by a pathetic coward with his face covered.
What's up with the face coverings?
I think it's funny that the world is laughing at these idiots now.
