Israel/Palestine thread

why do you think that, given they didn't have elections for like 18 years even if the could?

I think you guys are being too dismissive of Sinwar and his motives. He has the entire Koran and Hadith memorized and is a true believer. He is ok with Palestinians dying to improve Hamas political position, because in his interpretation of Islam they are Shahid dying for God; a great honor.

And although he may (or may not) make a temporary truce in the short term, Sinwar will never give up the fight until the land we call Israel is returned to the Ummah. And as for Palestinian society, although I am sure they would prefer things were going better in the short term, generally they agree with his interpretation of Islam and overwhelmingly support the struggle for the deliverance of "Palestine" to the Ummah, as every poll indicates.

Jalfrezi has no theory of mind for Palestinian society, or really the Middle East at all. He really thinks "Palestine" is Ireland and Israel is the UK.

Although if we are talking about theoretical elections, I think it would be important to note that if West Bank held legitimate elections, all indications are the PA would do poorly and Hamas or some other Islamist group would win said elections. The PA is currently regarded as sellouts by Palestinian society, and they prefer a leadership that is more determined to take the fight to the Israelis.

I am not sure countries can have a prerogative to mutilate or otherwise subjugate a big portion of their own citizens.

I don't think a prerogative to exterminate or enslave a racial minority exists either.

we can say that we aren't strong enough to enforce that violently everywhere (yet), or that nuclear deterrence prevents us from enforcing that in say China, but I am not sure that works with Egypt and somalia.

ie I think that 1) countries that do that shouldn't be in the UN 2) we should make it very clear any leader that allows or encourage that will be killed by us and regime change enacted until they find leaders who try to ban those actions, then we help them.

I think we have a moral responsibility toward humanity to enforce the most basic human rights worldwide and even if in some cases this can't be done (yet) , when we can we should do it.

there is no self-government prerogative allowing slavery and subjugation of racial minorites or women.

btw re shogun, do you remember the godfather scenes in Sicily when Pacino met the girl there?

Did I hear correctly they have elections coming up in 2042?

I remember the basic plot outline. I dont remember the exact details of the courting rituals, which is what I assume you are referring to.

I think you are articulating a 20th century Western vision of liberalizing the world that there is no appetite for anymore. Given the constraints we put on ourselves in using force, at this point it isn't clear we could use force to impose liberal values even if we wanted to.

I think more and more in the ME and Africa especially, we are going to see countries revert to traditional practices incompatible with Western liberal values.

In several African countries, juntas have taken over the govt and thrown the Americans and French out in favor of aligning with Russia, who makes no moral demands of them. And places like Turkey, Aizerbaijan, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen are backtracking rapidly; and there is little appetite in the liberal world to do anything about it.

For example, Afghanistan has gone backwards horribly in the human rights department since we left, and most Americans on the left and right are agnostic towards this and think the only problem with this is that it should have happened a long time ago.

Not to mention he spent 20 years in an Israeli prison. That is going to radicalize an already radical person even further.

Oh I know the appetite for my preferences is low, I was just stating what my preferences are.

We can remove the constraints on our power. I don't believe in the arc of history theory of pussification of society.

If what it takes to go back to a will of power transparently used without moral remorse is having women leaders with balls ordering the carpet bombings so be it, let the Meloni and the Haley order the bombing

Why would they?

It’s against the moderation rules to tell other posters what they think, and you’re not right. It’s much more like apartheid South Africa.
But really it’s its own thing and the two sides wanting to beat each other up with holy books alone makes it different enough to those situations, let alone the blood and soil for hundreds of years nonsense.

Graffitists aren't generally known for nuance.

So, you think there should be something connecting the two Palestinian areas, but if that happened, there would now be two parts of Israel, with nothing connecting them.

Ok unless there was a tiny strip hugging the border with Egypt and Jordan. Don't think that would be particularly useful to the Palestinians though.

Actually that is true of many in the US as well.

I did google it. Every definition I have found for armed forces seems to apply to Hamas just fine. So I guess you were wrong all along.

And lol at male circumcision being similar to FGM. I really think that male circumcision should be a thing of the past as well, but extremely rarely affects sexual pleasure (only if there was a slip up), and was never intended to affect it. FGM is specifically designed to prevent women from feeling sexual pleasure.

Personally I can't imagine wanting to be married to a woman with that - I would want someone who actually enjoys sex with me. But the monsters who do that only care about women as property. It's the same reason they make the women cover themselves so other men can't even look at them.

Are you asking why the people of gaza wouldn't have elections or why the terrorist government cancelled future elections after they won?

yes he wasn't supposed to be able to be with her alone, women of all ages from the town follow them nearby, and this is after he asked her father for her hand

fatah cancelled as well so it's more complicated than that

which american states don't recognize Biden as president and the federal constitution as the law of the land?

No but it IS a real issue to discuss. We can drill down a bit further, in the sense that in common speak now Islamization is the shift towards more radical forma of Islam (Saudis are doing the opposite, deradicalization). In Egypt that's the Brotherhood:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Bro...

As for FGM in faith, FGM is mentioned in the Sunna (and many Hadiths cover it). So the Shafi'i version of of Islamic jurisprudence within Sunni Islam is where it's popular.

That's the map essentially showing how it's present growth trajectory is spreading. As these territories grow, more women will have their genitals removed. This is just a fact of this world.

In today's signs of a troubling world:

https://www.jpost.com/international/arti...

Jewish writers are getting blacklisted and worry about their publishing futures[/B]

“Literary London is now a no-go zone for Jews”

‘Is your fav author a zionist?????” amina (@moyurireads) tweeted earlier this month, linking a Google spreadsheet of authors of Jewish descent and color-coding some 200 authors by their level of “Zionism,” from the mostly blue “Pro-Palestinian/Anti-Zionist” to the Red “Pro-Israel Zionist” authors, with in-between authors represented by orange (“Both Sides-ing”😉 and green (“It’s complicated”😉.

Fatah is as corrupt as Hamas

The only difference is they recognize Israel and would accept 2 states

Israel has been a country for 76 years

Blackballing someone for Zionism, which at this point means that they are in favor of Israel being a country like it has been since 1948

So yes, blackballing someone "for being a zionist" is 100% antisemitic