Israel/Palestine thread

Talk is cheap. The day Fatah acts like they would accept 2 states, I will believe it.

And regardless, Fatah is EXTREMELY unpopular in Palestinian society, exactly because of the perception they would be moderate and accept Israel has a right to exist.

So from this I gather your real problem isn't with the rights or otherwise of Palestinians, it's that to you they represent a creeping spread of Islam.

Aaaaand we're back to this.

For starters, ponder the existence of a public document RANKING JEWS.

Imagine a document ranking black people on ideas. Honestly think about that. Take an idea in the black community, make a google sheet, and then pick colors to grade these people on their ideas based on things they may have posted.

Then, note this quote in the article:

"In March, a prominent unnamed London literary agent said, “Literary London is now a no-go zone for Jews,” author Stephen Games told the Daily Telegraph. “He said there is no point putting proposals up to commissioning editors, as they just are not interested.”

There's no nuance there. That's just Jews, regardless of how the Jews have been publicly listed and graded (lol which is still obscene to type).

The article goes a step further:

"Yet “having an Israeli publisher” is enough to land novelists like Emily Henry (Beach Read, Happy Place) and Holly Jackson (A Good Girl’s Guide to Murder) on the list,"

So YOU don't have to be something, just your publisher.

This needs to be shared, and it needs to be outed. None of this behavior is acceptable. But particularly when an example of "bad Jewish bahavior" is something like what Taylor Jenkins Reid (Daisy Jones & the Six) did: mentioning Israel without Gaza. This is just peak nutty and evil imho.

I was just making an observation. I am not the one employing rhetoric that is the opposite of reality.

My real problem is the Palestinians (and their Islamist and leftists supporters) are violently denying Israel's right to exist, and have been for generations. And the world has been complicit in providing perverted incentive structures to allow this genocidal campaign to go on for way too long.

The early 20th century was a time of tremendous displacement, immigration and emigration throughout the world. Some voluntary, much not. Time to accept the results of what happened 80 years ago and move on. Just as all the ethnic and religious minorities (especially the Jews) that were thrown out of their ancestral lands in the MENA had to.

Imagine a document listing and ranking gay authors with color codes in 2024? lol

There would be riots today.

Rubbish.

It's crazy to even have to explain this to a person. It's three full generations of statehood granted by the legal process men (in the universal sense) observe. All this antisemitism bursting all over the planet right now only strengthens what we already know to be true: The Jewish people desperately needed a homeland. The Muslim faith has millions of square km's they self determine. But this little Victoria Island sized piece is at issue. Make sense of it.

For good or bad, conservative social commentators/pundits (and really even leftists who want to challenge progressive orthodoxy) were black balled from traditional journalistic distribution outlets; so they had to find new ones such as podcasts, sub stack, direct subscriptions, etc.. And many of them are doing just fine.

Jewish writers are going to have to just do something similar.

Like conservatives, if Jews want to be writers they are just going to have to be creative and go outside the traditional distribution channels, which have been captured by extreme bigots that down allow any challenge to their bigotry and ideological orthodoxy.

Of course the opposite is true, and recent events show it. The need for an ethnostate has isolated Israel, it's on the road to becoming a North Korea-style pariah state. On the other side of the world we've seen a heavily Catholic nation elect a president with Jewish ancestry. the real safety for Jews --for all of us-- is rejecting backwards notions of racialized naiton-states and embracing modern, multi-ethnic societies.

This account is pro-Israel propaganda, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. Palestinian militants are extremely reckless and dont follow any ethical or legal codes of military conduct, and constantly put civilians in tremendous danger. In addition to this kind of behavior, they also booby trap everything they can when they leave an area, and it is much more likely a Palestinian civilian is going to trip the trap than an Israeli soldier.

I would not be surprised if a shockingly high % of the Palestinian casualty count (whatever the real number is) is a direct result of their militant actions.

One of the many reasons i don't believe the good faith of people wanting to give palestinians a country, is that most of them never ask for independent qurdistan (which would make infinitely more sense given for example there is a specific Kurd language, and they were divided among 4 countries and are oppressed in every one of them, to various degrees).

I understand having a communist party as your independence movement doesn't help the cause, but in Iraq and Siria the kurds proven they can be friends of the west. And they treat women closer to how we think it's moral and proper to treat them, another point in their favour.

all this doesn't mean we have any kind of moral mandate to give them an independent country but the efforts spent for that for palestinians are incomprehensible given the close to 0 efforts spent to help kurds while objective rationality would require if anything the opposite.

That's proof of 0-principle, bad faith approach to the question

Trolly, over 20% of Israel are Arabs. I can assure you you're going to find a lot of Muslim countries that lack that diversity. 63% of the USA is Christian. In the 90's it was 90%. Was that an "ethnostate"? Do we ever consider 1990's USA as an ethnostate? Also, Gaza is not Israel.

Additionally, we are still observing these ideas (your ideas) as being a minority position globally. Albeit a vocal minority.

And finally, YOU don't get to decide how WE defend/protect ourselves.

You may have not noticed, but most of the ME and Africa is doing the opposite, aggressively pushing minorities out in favor of religious ethnostates; and the world is completely indifferent.

You cant have one set of standards for Israel and another for the rest of the world.

Israel is one of the few places in this part of the world that has liberal values and laws that actually protect civil rights of minorities. Some places are literally Apartheid states where you dont have many rights at all if you aren't the right ethnicity/religion (see Gulf States) and many others dont even bother to try to enforce the laws they do have against persecuting minorities (See Egypt).

Excuse me sir but Iran is an ethnostate, Egypt is an ethnostate, Jordan is an ethnostate, Saudi Arabia is an ethnostate, where are your posts decrying that as a monstrous choice and asking for it to change?

Btw South korea is much more of an ethnostate than Israel and that didn't make it a pariah state lol

Honestly I don't know anymore. I can't make sense of how impossible it is to make them understand this.

But this despite the diversity in Israel (between Arab, Christian, Baha'i, GAY, etc....)

Israel just had a big pride event. Imagine? Anywhere else regionally?

If someone considers ethnostates as inherently immoral for some reason, he should be "up to arms" against south korea and iceland but that never happens so... you know they are just projecting.

This is how it works: they want the USA in primis, and EU countries in secundis, to be multiethnical societies with no identifiable ethnic majority because they think that's superior morally.

So they oppose Israel as an appendix of the west trying to be fairly homogeneous ethnically (which btw it isn't, because the jews who moved there aren't of the same ethnicity at all, they are truly multiethnic in the proper sense of the word starting from which food their grandparents used to eat and taught them how to cook), while not giving any actual **** about the existence of actual ethnostates.

It's all about the normal culture war left vs right. For the left "diversity is strength" inherently, morally, and with that they don't mean having both spanish and ukrainian jews in Israel even if they spoke different languages, ate different food and had different genetic makeup, they mean skin color.

For them india is an ethnostate lol

My understanding is Iran is actually still fairly diverse, ethnically and religiously. It even still has a few Jews.

My understanding is the Arab world and Turkey aggressively turning into ethnostates in the 20th-21st century has more to do with embracing the early 20th century Nazi/Italian philosophy of ethnofascism (and then doubling down when it failed so spectacularly in Europe), than anything directly having to do with Islam. In fact, many of the intellectuals conceptualizing the movement were Christian Arabs.

And despite having such a conservative govt, Iran hasn't really gone this route. In fact, Iran still acts more like it wants to be a large, diverse conquering empire, which has its own problems.

It isn't something we talk about because it isn't convenient to the narrative; but if not for the actions of the US supported Saddam Hussein following the revolution; it is very likely Iran would have established an Islamic empire over much of the Arab world, just as it has several times before in history.

In today's world, the word zionism is used to excuse antisemitism

Iran is 4/6 persian, 1/6 azeri, 1/6 mixed small groups.

Israel is 40-45% Mizrahi Jews, 20-25% arab Israeli, 30% Ashkenazi Jews, and small groups.

The far right say if bibi accepts deal, they break the alliance and new election

“We”? You’re French Canadian I think. Why do you get to speak on behalf of Israel?

Also, many of the 90% USA Christians were not of the same ethnicity.

Yes that’s sadly true sometimes. As is how the accusation of anti semitism is used to discredit anti Zionism. Who knows, there could even be examples of that itt. I’m sure you’d be against such a thing, wouldn’t you?

I mean, here it is in a nutshell. You live in France, what is this WE nonsense? As an American taxpayer whose money goes to building the bombs, I have every right to speak out about what Israel does with our handouts.

It's like the other day you saw the new Mexican President is part Jewish so you just assumed her politics would align with yours, you can't help but see the world through this broken, racialized lens.