Israel/Palestine thread

It was always a crock of ****. I'm glad the pro-IDF posters here have dropped these silly pretenses: the plan is to collectively bomb and starve Palestinians until they're forced to leave or until they're exterminated.

The carnage moves to Lebanon next, and then Iran, and so on and so on. Israel has the right.

Bull ****ing ****

Stop lying

It's not even funny

Lebanon has been shooting rockets at Israel But this is Israel's plan to make lebanese leave Lebanon?

****ing insane theory

there would be no "so on" if all countries just stopped doing terrorism in Israel but that part doesn't matter to you.

I think there is a fundamental moral right to use unlimited violence to defend yourself from aggression until you absolutely guarantee the source of aggression is eliminated or neutralized completely, and it doesn't go away if you are a Jew.

no country on the planet should even think about the possibility of doing anything damaging to Israel (or any other western ally or western country).

it's not complicated, just convince them to completely stop all aggression toward the west and it's allies and we are done here.

or the bombing rightfully continue until they stop

Right

Hamas attacks Israel
Trolly mad that Israel responds
Hezbollah attacks Israel
Trilly mad that Israel would respond

You really want Israel to just ****ing disappear?

The deaths will continue until literally all terrorism stops. Israel has the right.

I do not know if Trolly is mad that Israel responded. Speaking for myself and others who have been characterized in that way though:

I believe Israel should have responded. I do not believe they should have responded in the manner that they have. If they were incapable of responding in a better manner then they should not have responded at all. If they are capable of responding in a better matter have chosen not to...

Mets, calm down and post on topic or you're taking a break, friend

He's outright trolling with his "Israel has the right" comments by I'm the one who's off topic?

Lol yeah that's unbiased

Metsandfinsfan will return to us in 24 hours. There is a limit to how many times I will ask nicely.

Washoe has also received a 24 hour timeout for posting an anti-semitic (and now deleted) meme in the thread. Friends, if you're not sure where the line is, you post at your own risk.

Or the Islamists win and Israel is destroyed. You live in this bizarre counter-reality where Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis, etc. are peaceful entities being attacked by the evil Israeli imperialists.

When these Islamist groups are the ones vowing destruction of Israel and death to the Jews in the name of their God. And all of them are directly attacking Israel right now.

I mean I hope you are right and Israel ends up victorious over the Islamists promising their destruction and there isn't a Holocaust 2.0 as promised. But I admit I am not super confident.

But your assertion that Israel is the aggressor and this will all go away if they just lay down their arms is pretty much the exact opposite of reality.

On the first bolded:

-obviously it's not until they're all exterminated, and you understand this. If it's 20k civilians (big if), we're many factors shy of "all exterminated". So let's put that to rest.
-There is not really anywhere to leave to. if 200k of them did get visas elsewhere, that would be tremendous news for those 200k, as they'd be looking at a huge increase in quality of life and opportunity (same as the refugees in Syria got for example). But again, the other 2M are going nowhere because there is nowhere to go. The Day after has to be the focus.

On the second bolded:

-Do you see any carnage headed to Jordan or Egypt (tiny few minute spat aside) or the Saudis right now? No, of course not. Why? Because those countries aren't actively launching daily attacks on Israel. What do you want in the North Trolly? Like actually, what do YOU want?

Israel can't abide by tens of thousands of citizens evacuated (and an economy destroyed) and getting constantly attacked with rockets, mortars, guided drones, etc. Eventually, it has to be stopped. If you want to call that carnage, man sure use the words. But have the intellectually honesty to spot which country is attacking which there. Israel has no other interests with Southern Lebanon being stopping from being attacked by it (which is just one of Iran's MANY proxies. They (Israel) were there before, they didn't stay. Their dream scenario is a Lebanon that isn't a failed state that stops lobbing stuff at it.

Your version of the conflict and the venn diagram of a young student's version of the conflict have slightly more overlap than is ideal, specially on this Lebanon bit. Enough well informed people in here have at least explained SOME of the nuance that even the most basic anti-Israel poster should grasp by now. If a huge chunk of San Antonio was evacuated and under attack daily from Mexico, while the agriculture of Southern Texas ground to a halt, nobody is second guessing what's next. That **** comes to a stop because that sort of provocation isn't something any nation needs to abide by. 11 real people got hurt today in that one attack, real people with families.

The entire kit and caboodle of what the state offers and represents should certainly supersede whether those who are trying to overthrow it have a credible reason for it. There are plenty examples of history as well as now where it would be justified.

Would they let someone put up a flag of Israel?

I thought they woke up and said "my religious leader tells me to kill the infidels, and if I die I will be rewarded in the afterlife where many virgins will be forced to have sex with me for eternity, sounds like a good career path for me".

Modern day nazis literally ditch their family and career to terrorize jews over religious horseshit.

Hamas and your classified terrorists are every bit of the panty sniffing dunces that they are portrayed to be.

Isn't that what had been happening for 18 years or so?

Maybe they could have stayed where they were instead of sneaking across the border to attack a dance party.

You don’t even have to get that extreme. Just think of the early 20s couple who were murdered recently doing missionary work in Haiti.

People like that go to a place like that because they’ve been indoctrinated to believe that dying in service of god is saintly.

Did you leave your birthplace? How many people in this conversation live in the same general (Gaza-sized) area as where they were born? Maybe 10%, tops? I think Luciom does, and almost no one else.

It wasn't said that they should have to leave their birthplace. It was said that hopefully they would, because that place offers nothing to them. It didn't offer much previously, and now most of that little has been destroyed. Most successful people, all over the world, are willing to leave their places of birth for somewhere they can more easily prosper. It's a lot nicer than living in a tent while holding a grudge that your grandpa was forced off his old land by someone else's grandpa 60 years ago.

You think Israel plans to depopulate Iraq??

Who can say. Anywho

--Just a reminder Palestinian Muslims are not actually particularly "native" to the Levant. They are just a very successful group of recent colonizers.

I also find it interesting that a moderate Dem like Yglesias is posting this.

"Right wing" commentators (like Hanania, who ironically is an ethnic Palestinian Christian) have been pointing this irony out the entire time, but even Jewish moderate American Democrats like Yglesias have avoided making arguments along these lines.

I suspect Hezbollah basically declaring war on Israel and opening a second front is going to result in American public opinion and support (minus progressives and Muslims who I suspect will be pro Jihad till the end) shifting back towards Israel in a big way.